Ghost in the machine
by Nick
A slightly belated Halloween post.
I was 14 when the first season of The X-Files was broadcast on UK television. This was the perfect age to become obsessed with the programme’s mix of aliens, ghosts and conspiracy theories. Like Fox Mulder, I wanted to believe. The series sparked an obsession that made me an eager viewer of the other – mostly awful – programmes which tried to cash in on the 1990s vogue for the paranormal. Amongst the most awful was a BBC series – it may have been the one presented by Carol Vorderman, although I can’t recall for certain – which was a ragbag of “strange but true” stories presented through dramatic reconstructions. I can remember very little about it, save for one episode that has always stayed with me.
It told the story of a man in the early 1980s, who found that his BBC Micro computer had become a conduit through which he could communicate with a man from the sixteenth century. The latter was mystified by the “box of lights” which had appeared in his house, and accused the computer owner of witchcraft. Gradually, however, as the two carried on their electronic conversations a more trusting relationship developed. The programme concluded by stating that archival research supposedly revealed that the sixteenth-century man had actually existed, and that expert linguists had concluded that the dialect and vocabulary he used was authentic to the period.
A few weeks ago – fifteen years on – a memory of this story popped back into my head for some reason. Some quick Googling revealed that other people remembered it too; and that the man in question, Ken Webster, had written a book about his experience called The Vertical Plane. Intrigued, I ordered a second-hand copy and spent a happy afternoon reacquainting myself with the story. The book badges itself as “a unique supernatural detective story”, and one look at the cover gives an early warning that it was published by Harper Collins’s “occult” division.
You may or may not be relieved to know that this isn’t going to be a post about whether Webster’s account is true. Instead, I thought it might be interesting to consider Webster’s book as a cultural artifact in its own right. Webster’s book has quite a lot going on beneath the surface, which will perhaps be of interest to early modernists who study texts and the different forms they can take. So this post does two things. First, it summarises the story Webster sets out in his book. Secondly, it looks at how Webster tells his story, and how his own text and narrative link to early modern ideas about texts and narratives.
Webster’s story starts in the autumn of 1984, in the village of Dodleston near to the English border with Wales. He is living in Meadow Cottage, an eighteenth-century house in the middle of the village, with his girlfriend Debbie and friend Nicola. Webster borrows a BBC Micro computer from the school at which teaches, so that Nicola can use the word processor (EDWORD, for others who grew up with the Beeb) to write comedy sketches. All three are alarmed when files start appearing on the computer with messages in an archaic form of English, signed “L.W.” The messages are accompanied by various poltergeist phenomena, such as objects being moved or piled in particular formations.
L.W. gradually reveals himself as Lukas Wainman, living in a house on the site of Meadow Cottage during Henry VIII’s marriage to Catherine Parr (ie at some point between 1543 and 1547). He kept various livestock on the land around his house. He had been married with a son, but both wife and child died of the plague in 1517. He had studied at Brasenose College, Oxford and knew Erasmus, having met him three times in all.
A friend of Lukas’s then starts communicating: it turns out that Lukas has been arrested and is being held by the local sheriff, Sir Thomas Fowleshurst, due to his communications with the ‘light box’ or ‘leems boyste” as Lukas calls it, in his house. The friend also reveals that ‘Lukas’ is a pseudonym. Lukas is then released and held under house arrest, resuming communication and confessing how scared he is of the fate that could await him. He also reveals that the ‘leems boyste’ was brought to his house by someone called ‘one’, from the year 2109. ‘Lukas’ had been under the impression that Webster was also from 2109 until the latter says that he is living in 1985.
An unnamed contact from 2109 then starts leaving impenetrable messages on the BBC, saying that the events they are experiencing have a wider purpose. In the meantime Webster and his friends try to think of a way to save Lukas’s life. They remember a chance reference by Lukas to Henry Mann, Dean of Chester and find information in the present that Mann had in 1533 communicated with Elizabeth Barton, the so-called “Maid of Kent”. Barton was a Catholic nun who had made prophecies critical of Henry VIII’s marriage to Anne Boleyn, and who was executed as a result in 1534. Webster gives this information to Lukas to use as a bargaining chip with the sheriff. However, it doesn’t work, and Lukas goes on trial regardless: but is kept alive to keep the light box working. During this period Thomas Fowleshurst begins to use the box to communicate with Webster and it emerges that events are happening in 1546.
Communication is re-established with Lukas, but with further intervention and inscrutable comments from 2109. Webster and Lukas begin to suspect that 2109 is changing their messages, and develop a system where Lukas starts communicating with paper and charcoal left out for him in the present (Lukas meanwhile is able somehow to see and hear Webster in the past). Though this means Lukas reveals that his real name is Tomas (sic) Harden/Hawarden, a graduate of Brasenose who had been dean of the chapel there but was expelled in 1538 for refusing to expunge the name of the Pope from a book in the chapel, as was required by law after the break with Rome. 2109 become extremely irritated that Webster has learnt Wainman’s real name, and demand that he stops disrupting their experiments.
Eventually, the Grosvenor family – Harden’s landlords – demand that he leaves his house. Harden leaves a final message wishing Webster and his friends well, and stating that he will go to Bristol to buy a horse then see if he is welcome again at Brasenose. He says that he will write a book about the events, and hopes that some day they might meet so he can read Webster’s book and Webster his. Harden is then never heard from again, although Webster finds a reference to him – or at least someone with his name – becoming vicar at Little Barrington in Gloucestershire from 1551 to 1554. The tale is rounded off with some final, ever-cryptic communications from 2109.
One of the themes which emerges most strongly from The Vertical Plane‘s narrative is the instability of texts. Webster’s ghost is a textual ghost. Although Harden seems able to see and hear what is happening in the present, Webster himself never sees Harden (although his girlfriend, Debbie, sees him in her dreams on several occasions). Instead, he primarily interacts with Harden through various forms of textual communication, none of which the reader can rely on:
- Through the letters on Webster’s computer monitor. Some of these – Webster never knows which – are altered in subtle ways by 2109. Others are deleted by mistake, meaning that Webster has to summarise what he can recollect of them.
- Through printed copies of those same letters. A number of these are also subsequently lost, and again we rely on Webster’s memory of them for the content of his narrative.
- Through manuscript notes which Harden scratches onto surfaces in the present-day Meadow Cottage, or writes on scraps of paper. The materiality of these notes inclines Webster to place the most faith in them, even though they are often the shortest and most cryptic of Harden’s statements.
Harden communicates through different identities: directly as Lukas Wainman then as Tomas Harden, and second-hand through an unnamed friend and through the sheriff Thomas Fowleshurst. He also sets traps for Webster, in attempt to assess whether he is really from the future. For example, he claims to have done his degree at Jesus College, Oxford, which at that time did not exist: anyone from the future, Harden reasons, would surely know there is no such thing as Jesus College and that it is nonsensical to claim to have studied there. Webster, meanwhile, sees this as a “mistake” which could point to the presence of a hoaxer.
And Webster and Harden themselves also take steps to further mediate how their texts are received. Both try to modify their grammar and vocabulary so as to make it easier for the other to understand. Harden also modifies his hand-writing to try to make it as clear as possible. Webster’s own narrative then further mediates Harden’s, by ‘translating’ his texts. Harden’s original is presented in upper case, with a rendering in modern English below in lower case as with this example:
MYNE GOODLY FOOL MYNE LINKMAN THINKETH THAT THOU ART BE AL IN MYNE PAN H’SAYETH THAT ME MAKETH LYK DIVINSTRE BUT I KNOW YOW LYVE NOWE HE ALS SAYETH THAT MYNE BLOOD BE POYSOND AN THAT IT BE MYNE WEEK HIGNED FANCY BUT LUNE ME NAT METHENKE AN TOLDE HEM SO I ALS SEID ‘TIS LYK FAIRYMGOLD AN THAT TO HOLD IT CLOSE TIL ME WRYTS BOOKE.
My pleasant fool, my servant, thinks that you are all in my head. He says I act like a seer but I know you live now. He also says that my blood is poisoned and that it is my weak-hinged imagination; but I am not mad, I think, and told him so. I also said it is like fairy gold [that he should] keep it secret until I write a book.
The result is a patchwork of overlapping, unstable narratives, which through their structure resist any attempt to derive a “true” version of the story. Harden makes this point explicitly at one stage:
METHYNK YOW ARN A HISTORIE BOKE THAT HATH ITS FRONTE AN BACK SKYN JOYNANT WE ARN EECHE A SYDE
I think we are a history book that has its front and back pages joined together. We are each a side of it.
Indeed, Harden states at various points that he is writing his own book about these events: a completely alternative meta-narrative to set against Webster’s, albeit one that the reader is not privy to. Others clearly are, though: 2109 say that Harden’s book will be found one day. We are left, as a result, with the impression that yet another side to the story remains to be told.
The way in which layers of different textual forms impose themselves upon each other, adding to or contradicting each other, is not unlike the way in which the real Harden might have experienced the textual culture of sixteenth-century England. The bound, printed and unannotated book was by no means the prevailing manifestation of textual culture in early modern England. Textual forms which to modern eyes appear much less ‘settled’ than print interacted both in partnership and in tension with the printed book. Commonplace books reproduced text from printed sources while at the same time subverting it to the owner’s own needs. Manuscript newsletters co-existed with printed newsbook. Printed almanacs provided space for owners to hand-write their own annotations. While we are used to looking for linear, narrative compositions put together by a clear author and generating a fixed meaning, early modern writers and readers were willing to cut and paste material from different types and forms of texts, to create texts embedded within texts or texts that co-existed alongside others. People creating and using early modern texts had a much more creative understanding of the possibilities of textual culture than we have, until recently, given them credit for.
Given all this, the ease with which Webster’s sixteenth-century counterpart adjusts to the different forms of communicating with him is perhaps not so far-fetched. Harden’s sense of confusion and wonder is reserved for the ‘leems boyste’: where has it come from, and how does it glow so? But he adjusts very quickly to communicating with Webster in different textual media, and becomes adept at flitting back and forth between them. As a student at Brasenose, he would no doubt have been just as adept at negotiating printed and manuscript versions of texts. He alludes to a relaxed attitude about “remixing” different forms when Webster leaves out a picture of Erasmus which subsequently disappears, taken by Harden back to his own time:
THANK YE FOR THY PORTREYING ME SHALT HATH IT PORTRAYD IN MYNE BOKE OF YOW TIME.
Thank you for the picture. I shall have it put in my book about your time.
Webster’s narrative is, on the surface, a supernatural detective story which strives after truth. Who is/was Tomas Harden? Did he really exist? Were his communications real, or faked by someone with a good knowledge of the sources? Webster’s character devotes considerable energy during the early days of the haunting – if that is what it was – to researching early modern Chester and its surroundings. He is jubilant when Thomas Fowleshurst, the first verifiable character they come across, makes an appearance. He is even more jubilant when Robin Peedell, an assistant librarian in 1980s Brasenose, identifies Harden in the college records and Harden confirms who he is. But it is significant that Webster’s character also quickly grows fed up with this quest for truth:
I became bored… I wanted to go home, to read about something else.
And so Webster’s book can also be read, exercising one’s freedom as a reader, as an exploration of the relativity of truth. There is not just ambiguity in Webster’s narrative; there is layer upon layer of ambiguity, driven by the way he sets out his different narratives. Whether they are intended to echo the writing and reading practices of Harden’s contemporaries is not clear. But it is also, perhaps, not the point. Texts in whatever form are unstable, shifting media that resist attempts by authors to impose a fixed meaning upon them. In reading Webster’s story I have found my own meaning in it. In retelling it, I have used a particular structure, a long-form blog post, in a particular medium, the electronic text, both of which will shape how it is received. And in reading it, you will no doubt impose your own meanings on my telling of Webster’s telling of Harden’s life. Whether you read it as fact, metaphor or a simple ghost story, I hope you enjoyed it.
- Through the letters on Webster’s computer monitor. Some of these – Webster never knows which – are altered in subtle ways by 2109. Others are deleted by mistake, meaning that Webster has to summarise what he can recollect of them.
- Through printed copies of those same letters. A number of these are also subsequently lost, and again we rely on Webster’s memory of them for the content of his narrative.
- Through manuscript notes which Harden scratches onto surfaces in the present-day Meadow Cottage, or writes on scraps of paper. The materiality of these notes inclines Webster to place the most faith in them, even though they are often the shortest and most cryptic of Harden’s statements.
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Sharon Howard, Brett Holman. Brett Holman said: @mercpol on the Dodleston messages: instant messaging with the 16th century http://bit.ly/df7ev5 […]
[…] ghost of Lukas Wainman: by contrast I spent about a week crafting this post, which is as much about me as it is Wainman, […]
I’m delighted to have come across this blog and to learn that someone else remembers this particular story/episode. Like you, I too developed a fascination with paranormal stories around the time that X-Files was broadcast (I was always a sceptic, even at that age, but the stories still fascinated and frightened me). This particular story about the Dodleston BBC computer poltergeist always stuck with me and I’ve never come across anyone else who remembers seeing it on TV, much to my frustration.
If I recall correctly, I think that the programme was called ‘Out of this World’ and was indeed presented by Carol Vorderman. It was kind of like a crappier version of ‘Strange But True’ (if that’s even possible). I remember that the couple who lived in the house came home to find something scribbled on the kitchen floor in chalk (not sure if that was before or after the first messages appeared n their BBC). I also remember a scene when they came home to find all their pots and pans suspended from the floor up to the ceiling. Initially they struck up a friendly conversation with their poltergeist but eventually it turned malevolent.
I’ve occasionally come across similar stories told before and after this programme was aired (numerous variations of messages being written on unplugged computers, and so on), so I’m intrigued as to whether the Dodleston story was the original or if perhaps he’d plagiarised it from someone else.
i watched the very same programme. it was carole vordaman and it stuck in my mind too.one of the first things i did when i got my first computer was to go to ms dos,type in calling 2109 and left it on overnight in the naive hope i might get an answer and after the rise of the internet spent time trawling for more accurate information.as funnily enough doing that very same thing right now.
I’ve only read The Vertical Plane,years ago.Never forgot it,2109 was the most interesting aspect to me.This is an old blog now,anyone still interested?
Yes, I am! I still have the paperback. Truly fascinating!
Thank you so much for this blog! It’s been a massive help in writing a blog of my own about strange happenings http://i-heart-my.co.uk/?p=176
Delighted to have happened upon this blog. I’m currently re-reading The Vertical Plane, which has fascinated me ever since a friend recommended it to me in the late 1980s. In effect, Webster and Lukas/Tomas are communicating in the way we do now almost without thinking; they are sending e-mail messages to one another, or Facebooking. I wonder if the author still resides at the cottage or, if he has moved on, whether current incumbents have also experienced strange phenomena. Whether the book is an elaborate fiction or a straightforward retelling of actual events is somewhat immaterial. To my mind this is a unique and fascinating book, not too well written by the author (which tends to dismiss any hoax viz the apparently verified spelling and grammar of Lukas/Tomas et al from the past) and stands alone among modern fiction/storytelling/historical reportage – whichever it may be. Verification may of course be made if Lukas/Tomas’ book is one day discovered, as the mysterious collective 2109 suggests will happen. That will mark a huge shift in the way we see time travel. I do hope it happens in my lifetime.
Many people are highly sceptical about the events related in the Vertical plane book. Quite rightly so, given the degree of strangeness
But, I am not.
I had the opportunity to investigate these happenings first hand. No, I am not some away with the fairies wishful believer.I investigated with professional detachment not bothered what I would find. Fake or fact.
I left no stone unturned and used cutting edge science to get to the truth.In fact I believe it was the first computer controlled psychic investigation recorded in the world.
I don’t care two hoots if nobody ever believes it. I KNOW It really happened. It changed my life forever.It is going to change yours. The book should/will one day be ISBN recoded under the “history” section. It is a monumental historical marker in the ribbon of time
Gary, I have not had the privilege to read the book but am another person who was lucky enough to stumble upon the story through the Mysterious Universe podcast and find the implications fascinating. While I’m far from understanding the topics the story broaches upon, I’ve been on my own “quest” in a way to understand the universe, and I feel like your involvement in the topic showcases that you know something important. Will the public ever get to hear your side of the story?
Thank you for your enquiry. I would only ever be able to tell more if 2109 said that I should. I can of course talk as much as I wish regarding the general events. The equipment I used, and my involvement.There is much you could gleen from studying the book at length.There are a lot of clues (sadly) in between the lines.Best wishes Gary
Hello Gary,
You mention in recent posts that you could speak regarding the general events. You also mention that you shouldn’t underestimate the capabilities of 2109. Can you elaborate on that? Also, what was the nature of your sealed envelope communications between yourself and 2109? The Mysterious Universe podcasts mentioned that there were objects passed. What were they? Since The Vertical Plane book is so difficult to obtain these days, can you speak specifically about your side of the story? Also, have you had any further communication between yourself and 2109?
I appreciate and look forward to your response.
Hi Bingo Barnes,
Firstly my advice is to try much harder to obtain a copy of the book. I have had a communication that intimates that a film company are at last considering making this into a film.I do not know if you can realise the implications of this, but basically if you think that the book is hard to get now and expensive just wait until it has become a film. I would think that this will turn out to be quite a good investment. After all my £3.99 copy is now worth hundreds!! I can not believe that it has taken this long for some film company to see the potential in this story. After all it would be ideal to rewrite in their own way and just say it is based on a true story.?
I do hope that they do not change it in any way. I know that hey would regret it later.
RE.The capabilities of 2109: If you can believe that they were able to actually, physically, travel hundreds of years into the past to deliver the aperatus/machine/computer/monitor? (the “LEEMS MUST”) that made communications possible in those not so technical days.add to this their ability to put messages into a modern none doctored BBC computer despite it being inside a Faraday shield and only connected to the electricity via a mains cleaner filter.! coupled with this, They also knew all of my personal details that NO ONE but me were privileged to.What else might you suppose that they are capable of.
You can assume that any questions that I have not answered here, Are currently out of bounds for me to answer.
If you read the book you will have many other questions. Some of which I would hope I may be able to answer.
I hope that I have been of some small use.
My best wishes to you and any one looking into this incredible happening.
Regards
Gary
The Verticle Plane is being re-released on Dec. 14, 2017 – you may prchase on Amazon.co.uk for about $23 US I’ve wanted this title for a very long time! https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/000828833X/ref=od_aui_bia_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Gary, I have recently obtained a copy of the book, and just finished reading it. I will continue studying it as you say there is much to learn and clues to find. I know you will not talk about your personal communications with 2109, but might speak about the general event. Do you know if anyone has searched for Thomas Hawarden’s book? Do you know what has become of the cottage in Dodleston now?
2109 says that a person will come along to help, and that Ken will know who that person is. What do you think of that? I would love to talk to you more personally about the event. Some of the things I have read in this book are shocking.
“The eyes are open yet nothing do you see. The grey retarding mass is your convict. Quietly, alone he sits in the dark waiting for sentence to be passed, and demanding through the eyes of the blind of unspoken questions to answers of ethereal kind. The soul he is the traveler, chain nor bar can hold him to frail flesh. Here is the ruler of time and space. Here is your God”
How would one begin to go about contacting 2109? I know you say there is a price to pay, just as 2109 tells Ken and Deb and Peter there is a price to pay, and for the man who is prepared to lose mind, body and soul must step forward. Is the information too complex for us to comprehend?
I’m another who only discovered the Dodleston messages story through the MU podcast. I’m reading this thread with interest, though I have little insight to offer.
You’re so lucky to have found the book! I’m trying to get a copy through my local library to no avail (as yet?) Mr. Rowe: if the Vertical Plane does become a film, what are the odds that it might be reprinted?
Greetings Allison,
Sorry I can’t answer your question properly.
I had nothing to do with the book. Or its sales.I suspect that you are right. If it does become a film, then I would have thought they would reprint the book. Though it is usually the other way round.
glad you got a copy. that is quite an achievement in its self. Hang on to it, as it will go up in value.
Best wishes
Gary
Hey Alex,
Would you consider photocopying your copy of The Vertical Plane and posting it online? or emailing it to me? I’ve been searching everywhere for it but can’t find it anywhere. So it’s not a waste of your time, I can pay you?
Hi all interested in reading the VP.
If you are one of the lucky ones who own a copy, why don’t you consider renting it out to others. You could charge a high deposit which you could partially refund after it’s safe return.
Sorry if I’ve asked too much. I am very interested. In one message, when 2109 says to put your computer into edword/star, they mention geographic location is usually essential. Would contact with them require being closer to the U.K?
Also, in the same message they say- “May we remind you that you have seen some of our handy work- Canada?!?!”
What does this mean? Are they referencing a paranormal/UFO event?
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the Emails,
glad to see you were able to get a copy of the book. That in itself is quite an achievement these days.
There is much that you can discover reading between the lines with care. I believe that 2109 have manipulated all concerned, without their knowing it. That I believe also includes Ken Webster to pen exactly that which they are happy for ordinary sceptics to know but also slightly more hidden/deeper information for the much “wiser” person to use in order to gain information which they would like them to know.
As far as I am aware, the cottage is still standing.
Could “that person” be me?
You asked “how would one go about contacting 2109”
First you should determine why you would want to contact them.
If it is to seek information from them. Forget it. I believe they have left as much information as they are willing to reveal at the present time.
They are not to be played with. They are not a correspondence school. You don’t contact them .They contact you.
Perhaps if you consider why they picked me. You might discover how you could make yourself available, should they wish to contact you. But know this…you must be a man of your word.
They would have no difficulty in making you understand what they are saying. They can make the difficult easy to comprehend.
I believe that they can make communication possible anywhere of their choosing. and it would seem through any kind of media.
As for “Canada” You have the same clue here as Had. I am happy to have found an answer. Impress me (and possibly 2109) go find yours.
Thomas Harwarden’s book has not been found yet.
I have answered your questions as best I am able. My advice to anyone interested in this event: There is a wealth of information in the book. Use common sense and also try to read between the lines a bit.
Best wishes with your research. There is much you could learn,
CLUE for genuine seekers.: Though perhaps I should not tell you this, try looking at chapter? 7.
Please let me know how you get on
Regards Gary
PS hang on to your copy of the book as it looks like it is just about to get more valuable.
Gary, thank you so much for the information, and for replying so quickly. I’m replying to your comment since I can’t reply to the one you left me for some reason.
I don’t really want to contact 2109 for information. I’m just very interested in the messages between Ken and 2109 regarding Fermat’s Last Theorem, and calling 2109’s “Bluff”.
I think if anyone in the world were to know if they were “the person”, you would probably most likely as it seems you have had the most meaningful/intimate contact with them. In the book, 2109 says that a person will come, which is after they tell Ken and Deb to contact you. So my belief right now is that the person to come is maybe the person meant to find Thomas’ book?
I’ll continue to study the book and read between the lines, especially chapter 7. Thank you for the clues.
Hi Alex,
Glad you finally got my message.
Always interesting to hear what others think about it all.
You expressed an interest about Fermats last theorem.
As you saw in the book, this question was put to 2109 as a way to determine if they were from the future when a solution might have been found. You will note, 2109 did not decline to provide an answer, but it was conditional. The question putter was not prepared to accept the condition.
So no solution was forthcoming.
I have an imaginary scenario to put before you. for your meditation. Imagine if you will this:…
You end up in the same situation. I.e..trying to prove to your own satisfaction that 2109 is real, and that they may be from the future. You would need to come up with questions that would positively reveal the truth to your satisfaction. Ones that only people from the future might be able to answer. You have decided that you would accept any conditions, unlike your predecessor.
Perhaps you might think that others had already come up with one, quite good question to include in your investigation.
Trouble is this is a very complex piece of mathematics that has stumped the worlds top scientists and mathematicians, the experts, the good and the great, for years. If they told you the answer was 42 (forgive me, I obviously made this up). it would probably be meaningless to you (It most certainly would be to me). (Mathematics is my worst subject.)unless you had access to one of the worlds mathematical geniuses, the answer would be useless to you as proof.
Even trying to contact them with the answer would cause a sensation. as you would then be heralded as the discoverer.
But suppose that you were told that you could have the answer anyway, and that you would find it correct in the near future. Might you not still consider having the answer amongst your arsenal of testing questions?
Strangely enough the answer to Fermat’s Last Theorem was discovered a year or two later!!!!
I am not telling you that any of this did take place. Just a scenario to contemplate!! One that I obviously had to contemplate.
It is harder than you can imagine to come up with question that will produce a definite hit.
For one thing, however far into the future you perceive them be, it does not mean that the events you cite will have yet happened yet. Perhaps never.
Sit down and try this for yourself. You will see what I mean. It could be that unlike me you will find this easy. I would love to hear how you get on.
Glad you are looking at CHAPTER? 7.
This might open up a whole new ball game for you.
Regards
Gary
Gary,
That is an incredibly complex scenario. I understand what you mean in that it is seemingly impossible to ask a question that could produce a definite hit. It seems as though the only category of question that could be asked is one that is either unanswerable today with our current technology, or one that just hasn’t been answered yet. I suppose once the answer to the question is obtained, one must just wait on it and see if the “future” was correct. Still, as you say, maybe the event never happens. It is not a sure way.
I thought the Fermat theorem was a pretty good question because, hypothetically, one could just sit on the answer and wait until it is solved. But if it isn’t solved, or you don’t find out about it, it isn’t really proof. If you present the answer to someone who has the means of figuring it out, you have them presented them the answer, making it seem as though you solved it. I suppose it I personally were the mathematical genius, and could propose a question that hadn’t been solved, learning the answer and checking it may be enough.
It is incredibly difficult to think of what to ask, if I were to even ask anything. I guess if I were in a position to ask questions, anything at all, I would just ask what I should do.
What I’m still thinking about is, what the wish 2109 asks for, and what the new conversation formula is. The price of the answer is the loss of mind, body, or soul, as they say “let the man who is willing to lose these step forward”. This is the price to pay for learning the answer to Fermat’s theorem/proof they are from the future? At that point, the question would seem meaningless, as to lose your soul is to lose all.
If I could ask questions at all, maybe I would just ask what to do. They say that our kind are getting their fingers burnt, and they are right. But that Ken and Deb may prevent that, indirectly. It seems to me as though the human race, while we are becoming very technologically complex (relative to us), we are incredibly destructive, as 2109 allude to. I wonder if this could change our trajectory.
Thank you for the replies. I will continue to think about your hypothetical situation and studying the book.
Gary – when you say chapter 7, do you mean the wrongly numbered chapter between chapters 22 and 24? In which Fowlshurt releases Lukas/Thomas? Or the actual chapter 7?
Hi Nick,
Well done. Good reasoning on your part I thought. You seem, like you are really determined to get to the bottom of The Vertical Plane mysteries..
I cant understand why the rest of the thousands who have read this book have not attempted to determine the truth or otherwise of this exceptional out there event. I have only had a handful of contacts regarding this since the book was published.!!
Probably, because it requires a great deal of swallowing in the first instance.. Sometimes/ very occasionally the most way out things do become a reality.
Had you told me about any of today’s technology when I was young, I would have laughed and deemed you a nut case. But, here I am typing away on my computer sending you messages down a wire.
CHAPTER? 7 : Yes It was the fact that there is a print error and the book has got two chapter 7’s.
Is this just an accident? Or an orchestrated accident?
Ponder this:
If 2109 are as powerful as they intimate to be. Then is it not reasonable to assume that, they are capable of bringing about any result that they would wish. If they were from the future then they would know in advance that Ken Webster would write the book.
Do you not think that they would make sure that the written record of these events were as they would wish them to be recorded. Right down to the correct printing.
By the way It was not until many months later, that someone pointed out to me about the chapters.
I then began to look at things in more detail. (but 2109 would have known this too).
CLUE :(This was also my clue to what was going on) What are the first two characters printed on the second chapter 7?
Do you know anything about CHALDEAN NUMEROLOGY.
I can tell you that 2109 do.
They are the only ones to have known that I had studied Chaldean numerology. And how important it is to me.
If I knew that one of the most important aspects about you, was your love for or knowledge of, some very obscure or bizarre interest. Say that you collected frogs. And you knew that I was aware of this also.
Then any time I wished to indicate my hand was in some event, or to let you know that i was about. I would only have to mention frogs, by way of a calling card. Even now long after the event I ………**&%$£”!………….
Hope you find this interesting. I have enjoyed our communication. As I have had time to write during my break from my many activities over the last couple of weeks, but after today it is back to my duties. I am booked to give a talk next Tuesday at LLanasa. So will continue to do my best to answer any questions you may have as I feel this is also one of my duties. But, it will have be much shorter. Perhaps as you get better at reading between the lines I could leave a few out
Please let me know what you discover, you may be helping yourself more than you know number 2.
Best wishes
Gary
Having looked it up, I see both 25 (strength gained through experience, especially with regard to the future) and the sum of the two digits, 7 (faith and spiritual wisdom) are rather appropriate for the book. But having re-read that chapter a few times I am none the wiser!
For those interested in the Thomas Harden/Hawarden who turns up in Little Barrington, you can find a fuller reference to him and his theological knowledge here:
https://archive.org/download/englishhistorica19londuoft/englishhistorica19londuoft_bw.pdf
See page 111 of the book, or page 121 of the PDF. It is a summary of the Bishop of Gloucester’s visitation in 1551 where each vicar’s knowledge was tested:
Par. ch. of Barington Parva, the king patron. Thos. Arden, vicar.
C [10 Commandments] : Says ten, Exod. xx., but cannot repeat. A [Articles of the Faith] : Repeated, but did not prove from Scripture. LP [Lord’s Prayer] s. [satisfactory] C [communicants] about 40.
Little Barrington doesn’t seem to have any surviving parish registers before 1581 – at least, only that year onwards is mentioned on genealogical reference sites.
There’s also a reference to a Hawarden rather than Arden here:
http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/DisplayAppointment.jsp?CDBAppRedID=289258
He seems to have vacated the living by 1554, but the reason why is not clear:
http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/DisplayVacancy.jsp?CDBAppRedID=171926
There is probably more that could be found by a bit of digging in the Gloucester Record Office. As for the Thomas Hawarden at Brasenose, here is his matriculation record:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/alumni-oxon/1500-1714/pp652-678
Hawarden, Thomas (Harden) fellow of Brasenose Coll., B.A. 12 Dec., 1530, M.A. 17 March, 1534-5; possibly a student of Gray’s Inn 1528, and one of these names vicar of Barrington, co. Gloucester, 1551. See Foster’s Index Eccl. & Gutch, ii. 60.
Page 8 here – https://ia800200.us.archive.org/14/items/cu31924029785452/cu31924029785452.pdf – has the reference to Thomas Hawerden going to Gray’s Inn in 1528. This seems unlikely to me though – my understanding is one would attend the inns of court after a spell, even brief, at university, and that it would be unusual to do it the other way round.
Hi Nick,
Thanks for the message.
You have certainly done some digging. Thanks also for the info.
Alas, there was little depth to what I was trying to show you.
As you are not able to test 2109 yourself directly to see if they are what they intimate to be. I am trying to give you a chance to see some proof another way.
I wanted you to discover for yourself (just as I have) just how much 2109 were able to adjust/bring about/ modify events over a great period of time.
It would seem that it was no accident that I was to come into contact with them eventually. I believe that this event was destined from the very moment I was born. Or even before.
They have left me in no doubt. I am sure that you will eventually come to the same conclusion.
From the moment I first saw the book I had wondered why ken picked “The Vertical Plane” as the title. I now know that he was subconsciously led to it.
The number 7 is my numerology calling card. Have another look at the title.
Regards
GARY MALCOLM ROWE
Born 1942
4/6/42
Tel: 331684
While I do not have a copy of the book, this is sounding more and more like Gary is alluding to the significance of numerology in the role of the name “2109”. Can’t help but notice (after reading this – http://eminekarakaya.blogspot.ca/2015/01/chaldean-numerology-new-and-improved.html) that 2109 could possibly imply a very long string of text to create that large number? I could be interpreting this all wrong however.
What I’d love to know is, Nick, how the heck did you manage to get a copy of the book? I only wish I knew if it were even possible to get a copy, considering… This story has been in the back of my mind for months now despite trying to get over it……
I got my copy second-hand, I think from a seller in Amazon Marketplace. I don’t remember paying over the odds for it so I guess I was just lucky in getting in there before demand for it shot up. Sorry, I know that isn’t a particularly helpful answer…
Hi Gary.
Thanks for all your information and comments here. I love a good mystery and I’ve always had ‘certain suspicions’ about the nature of time (and subsequently space). This was spurred by a reading of J.W. Dunne’s ‘An Experiment With Time’, which I recommend for anyone interested in ‘The Vertical Plane’.
I am very interested in the request from 2109 to put an ‘Edword Chip’ into your TRS80. At first, I thought it was bizarre that a word processor would have it’s own associated chip, but then I found this:
https://archive.org/details/AcornUser022-May84
…an issue of an Acorn user magazine (the company that makes the BBC microcomputer), which does indeed mention that,
“Edword comes with the most thorough documentation I have ever seen: even installation runs to four pages. There is really no excuse for fitting the chip incorrectly.”
So yeah, there really was an Edword chip. Edword was created by Clwyd Technics. In chapter 7 of ‘The Vertical Plane’, Ken Webster talks about Clwyd and how it ‘has no identity’ and was a ‘county concocted out of the local authority reshuffles of the 1970s’. So here was this software made up the road from Ken’s cottage. Now I assumed that modems were pretty-much non-existent in 1984, or at least very rare. My family had one in 1986 and that was an anomaly where I grew up. But this same issue of Acorn User that mentions the Edword chip, also makes multiple mentions of modems that are available for sale with the BBC and the skeptic in me has this niggling feeling…
Regardless, this doesn’t explain the poltergeist activity AT ALL and the computer was thoroughly examined, so… I dunno.
Also, I haven’t finished reading the book so maybe I should stop getting overexcited. I can’t find out what became of Clwyd Technics or its employees. Do you know, Gary? Or can anyone else find any information? All I know is that they were quite advanced, offering robotics kits with built-in motion-sensing and obstacle-avoidance. They were very expensive for their time.
This is fascinating stuff. I wish everyone the best in their detective hunt. However, if 2109 is correct about what they say, that ‘price to pay’ would be very high in deed. If one were to have a clear realisation of the nature of time (and subsequently, space too), as hinted at by J.W. Dunne…. I dread to think.
—————————
Am I right off the track, Gary?
Hi Anne,
Thanks for the contact..
Double thanks for the info about the company behind Edword etc.
I had no reason to investigate this aspect as Edword was already installed in the Dodleston computer, and I was not about to further complicate my investigations by installing it in my own computer. This said, I have no idea if that would even have been possible.
At no time did I ever see a modem. I accept that they may have been available, but at that time would have been a very rare item. I had, at that point, never heard of such a thing. Or had any use for one.
I thought the equipment I was using was state of the art at the time. After all my simple computer and associated ribbon printer alone cost over a thousand pondsin 1980. The interface equipment that allowed me to operate my automatic survey equipment by the computer was designed for me privately by a world expert on communications at a leading technology company.
Had it not been home built I suspect that it would have cost another thousand.
i must point out here that I am not a rich person. I have never received any grants or financial help towards my work. I never charged anyone for the countless hours of research that I did for people. All my life I have either made my own equipment or worked giving talks etc to raise money for my research.
But I still managed to have the very best resources.
I am certain that no modem was involved in the messages.
Equally certain that the computer could not be affected by any external sources.or manipulated in any way. without me knowing it.
Heaven knows how messages were read inside sealed envelopes.by 2109.
When there was no way that they could be opened without me knowing.
But then, we don’t know everything. If we did I would be out of subjects to investigate.
Things that seemed impossible just a while back are every day items now..
I hope this helps.
Best wishes
Gary
Thanks for your response Gary. I’m just trying to eliminate any possibilities of technological meddling – but I think you already thoroughly did that! I believe there is weirdness afoot that requires me to keep a totally open mind. I’m going to continue trying to find out anything about Clwyd Technics and I’ll let this page know how I go.
I’m so glad that you found this page. Your responses are highly appreciated, as are everyone’s contributions here. I got lost down a very rewarding research hole following Nick’s leads (Thanks Nick).
Cheers all.
Gary,
Do you believe 2109 were humans? The excerpts I’ve read of some of their messages, to me they seem inhuman.
And who was the person “one” who gave Tomas that book when he materialized in the green light?
Would you be willing to photo copy every page of the book and E-mail it to me? I find this book fascinating but in the country i’m in, not one single store or library has a single copy, so frustrating. I could send some money through paypal or something for your trouble?
I think I know where Tomas’s book is concealed, too.
“I think I know where Tomas’s book is concealed, too”
Okay you can’t just leave that one hanging!
(More widely just to say how pleased I am that this blog, which has been somewhat dormant in terms of me posting of late, has been a hub for discussing this book. Please do keep the conversation going).
Hi Owen,
Interesting questions, Unfortunately I am not able to talk about 2109. Sorry.
I know how hard it is to get a copy of this book. I get requests about it often.
I am also not able to copy the book for you. It is totally illegal to make copies from books as they are protected by copyright.
I suggest that you contact one of the people on this site who have got a copy and offer to hire his copy. if you offered a substantial deposit it might tempt someone to start hiring out.
So sorry I can’t be of more help. Keep trying it will be worth it in the end.
Regards Gary
Don’t be sorry, I understand. Was just looking for more clues.
Thanks for replying 😉
Gary, I’ve been trying to contact Ken Webster, and also trying to contact you via Facebook. Fortunately, I see you’ve been replying to comments on this blog fairly recently, so I hope you see this message. In one of your comments I see you say a film is potentially being made. I am a filmmaker and have desperately been trying to contact Ken to talk with him about making a documentary on the events. I would greatly appreciate your help, and of course would love to interview you as part of the film should it ever come to fruition.
Hi Matt,
Just read your comments.(12/10/2017)
Sorry, I am afraid that I can be of little help in putting you in touch with Ken Webster as I have had no contact with him since The events in the book.
I have no idea where he now lives.If you should find out, perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know.
However, I am more than happy to be of assistance to anyone regarding my own involvement in the case. Should you require any help, or have any questions with that, just ask..
Best wishes
Gary M. Rowe
(Investigator in the vertical Plane Book)
dandare@uwclub.net
For anyone still following this thread, or chancing upon in in the future: I’ve found the Carol Vorderman documentary! Or at least, an episode of it with part of Webster and Harden’s story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgS7HVv8dS0 (from around 16:30 onwards)
The “Strange but true?” series covered the story in two separate episodes but like all TV treatments of the unusual made a complete mess of it.
They failed to mention the most important half of the story- the communication with 2109 which is what it was really all about.
Gary Rowe June 2016
Hi Gary,
I’ve just stumbled across this fascinating story via the Mysteries Universer Podcast. As a film-maker I’d love to make a proper documentary about this, before a lot of the people involved aren’t around to put forward their side of the story. Would you think this is possible?
Tim Leavy.
Gary, can you tell us what type of equipment you used to communicate with 2109? Do you still stay in touch with them and is it possible for a common citizen like myself to contact 2109? Can we use modern day computers? Thank you very much.
Hi Damion,
Despite having my own computer on site and a plethera of other equipment available. I did not use any of my equipment to contact 2109. They, used the “BBC Micro” that was at the cottage.. It would seem that they were able put messages directly onto the computer, despite the computer having been investigated by the manufacturer and connected through a mains filter/isolater and, on one occasion even inside a Faraday shielded box and no other connection to telephone lines etc. They (2109) told me that they would prefer to contact me through my own computer,”a Tandy TRS 80 level two” with printer if I would fit it with an “Edword” chip. at my own home.I declined as I did not want contact at my home. Also it was much easier for me to control my investigation in the cottage.
I learnt very early on, not to underestimate the capabilities of 2109. They are awesome.
If they choose to contact you they will. You wont need any special equipment. You could of course request to be contacted. But I would not recommend it. It would come at a price.
I hope this has answered your question.
Best wishes.
Gary
To Gary Rowe,
I’m a 24 year old artist and writer, and before I was born my mum bough a copy of the book, and I first read it when I was a little girl.
I’ve only sold magazine articles and short stories so far but I’m going to work hard to get novels published and be as good as my family members, as I’m related to a couple of successful writers!
I’d live to write a play, but I wish it could be a play that tells the story that the people involved want told, exactly as they prefer it.
As a writer I’m interested in using spiritual philosophy, and want to use it in a way that other fiction writers don’t tend to. For example I’m writing a novel set in the near future, and it is not paranormal at all, it is a crime novel set firmly in the ‘real world’. However some characters can see auras and past lives are mentioned in passing as part of people’s motivations for doing things, these things are just mentioned occasionally as if they were part of the natural world.
So you see why I might find this subject interesting. I’m not yet at a stage in my life where I’m able to do this project, but perhaps in a couple of years, and I was hoping I might be able to contact you again, close the time?
I don’t know if the things I use in my fiction really exist, but even if they do not exist I think they are interesting.
If past lives were real one could look for Lucas in the present day and undergo past life regression and simply ask where the book was. Or perhaps get him to dictate his version of events, and create a book. That book would have to be sold as fiction but it could be a brilliant and fascinating science fiction story.
That’s very fanciful but it would be fun to look for that person. I’m sure there are other ways to look for the book, and to write new material about the search for the book. A creative project even if the book was never found.
Hi Alice,
I wish you every success with your writing.
Your ideas seem very good. I am astonished that someone has not already written a book using the Vertical Plane as a starting vehicle. Obviously it must be original and not directly connected. I only wish that I was free to write my version of the events. It is annoying to think that i am sitting on a an easy fame and fortune but will never be able to realise it. Especially as I am not a wealthy person. But, there, money is not everything. How does that old song go ” I have diamonds in the sky, and gold in the midday sun”. It is better to be lucky than rich and I am very. very lucky.
My numerological number seven post code has today just won me £40 on the post code lottery. Just in time to help with the car insurance which is due on my Lambogini Countash.
If you think that I in any way might be able to help you with your career please feel free to ask and I will do my best.
Best wishes for now.
Gary
Hi Gary,
I commented below, as I’m interested in the search for the book. I just thought I would comment here too in case you missed the other message!
My ideas about finding the book are probably stupid, but even if it was impossible, I reckon I could write a new book about the attempt to search for the book, that might be interesting.
I hope you reply 🙂
Don’t be sorry, I understand. Was just looking for more clues.
Thanks for replying.
Dear Mr Rowe,
I have sent you a private email regarding this thread of comments.
Best wishes,
Karl
http://www.psychicbookclub.com/
The link above is dead, BUT… Here is a video showing both parts 1 and 2 of the documentary stitched together: https://youtu.be/k8qt85aKuOU
Many thanks. I really appreciate your help.
Gary
[…] Ghost in the machine […]
I’m here because of Mysterious Universe! Great account!
Same here, I can’t get over this story
It is a great story, isn’t it? My inner 15-year old really wants it to be true…
I turned Mysterious Universe on before I went to bed, then I tried to drift off to steep but guess what…..I was awake for a long time that night. If this isn’t true it is a great sci-fi story. Sounds like a screen play ready to go.Tim Leavy, take a crack at it, then advertise it well. I would love to see it! D. Wilck
Hmmm… and now the video has been taken down. I think interest is going to balloon after the MU podcast. I got my second-hand copy though… and it was not cheap. But considerably cheaper than the £500 copy someone’s trying to hawk. This is a rabbit-hole I can’t wait to jump down…
Does anyone know where i can find a copy for sale thats not $599?
Same… We should form a group to share it.
yes please
Where and how should our group convene? I’m not a big fan of Facebook or Google. Any suggestions?
We could use an app called Slack.
Amazon UK has re-released it – will be out 12/14/2017
I ‘bought’ the book and then the seller suddenly removed it and refused to honour the sale. There is a pdf copy out there. ‘Someone I know’ tried to download it. It got to 93% and then the person seeding never allowed the remainder to download. ‘Debbie’, the author’s girlfriend (?) in the book was chatting with some enthusiasts on a forum in paracast.com. I asked her if she’s interested in producing an online kindle version. No response. So many people want it. It is bizarre.
Sir Francis Bacon would be proud…
For Gary Rowe:
I just completed the book. As I have commented elsewhere, I have found several parallels between the Vertical Plane story and my own research.
I am surprised that there is doubt of 2109’s existence by those who have read the book.
A question: why does no one have any questions regarding “1”?
I would welcome a dialogue on your impressions of the larger, sovereign context of the issue.
4556524131383155
37652513515453213
as ever
temporal recon
Personally, I have no questions regarding ‘1’ because I have not read the entire book. I don’t want to be confrontational, but your message seems top be constructed to give yourself the appearance of possessing some exclusive knowledge that the rest of us are not privy to. I am especially referring to the string of numbers at the foot of your post. I realise that your message is only directed at Gary, but this is an open forum.
–
If anyone would like to pitch in on a copy with me, please reply to this message by emailing: gnatgnatgnat@gmail.com. To avoid argument over who ‘owns’ the material book, we could share turns at reading it and then sell the copy back to Amazon (or similar).
Hello Anne!
Perhaps, when you complete the book, questions may arise in your mind regarding “1.” Or perhaps new and different questions might ferment in your mind. The biggest challenge, in my humble estimate, is to have the wherewithal to find the appropriate gems to question and explore this magnum mysterium. The Vertical Plane (with or without the “spiral staircase”) is a fine example of the opportunity for this to happen.
To your non-confrontational point: we ALL have exclusive knowledge that the rest of us are not privy to. We are all products of our own unique life experiences, interests and intellect. I claim no special place on the forum in this regard. The numbers I provided are an obvious nod that is only obvious to those with eyes to see and ears to hear. I have every expectation that, once you obtain a copy of this fine and sovereign work, you will devour it with the totality of the intellect it demands.
454863541525264
As Ever
Temporal Recon
In the book there is reference to a leems, could this be Low Energy Electron Mass Spectroscopy?
I assumed that ‘leems’ was a word invented by Lukas. Or, if not invented, a word common to his time which described the object to the best of his ability. I have no information or knowledge of language of his time that would confirm or refute this theory.
Hey guys, I just recently listened to the MU special for the book. I am blown away by this and would love to have more information about it. Hahaha good luck finding a book, there isn’t a lot of information on the Web either.. If anyone has any information of how to get ahold of the book or where to find a PDF of it, I would love to read it.
Thanks!
Lukas claimed that one had called it a leems when he first appeared and presented him with the device so I don’t think it was a word of Lukas time or choosing myself.
Ah. My mistake. Thank you for the clarification. I must have missed that detail. Very interesting little gem though, don’t you think?
As Ever
Peter Trinder told us that “Leems Boyste” is Middle English for “box of lights”. If Tomas wrote his book then this is probably a search term to use tracking it down on the internet as it seems peculiar to Tomas’s language according to Peter.
There is a Kindle version of this book coming out end of October for £5.50! The author feels no one should pay the ridiculous sums requested by speculators for his book.
This is the best news i’ve heard about this book since i heard about it.
Hi Debbie – any update on the release date for the kindle? Sorry to pester – I’m just excited. Many of us await with baited breath 🙂
Proof reading is taking longer than expected, mostly due to Tomas’s language, we are getting there though. I’ll post again when it’s up on amazon…
[…] finally, we briefly discuss one of the most fascinating mysteries of the last century: The Dodleston Messages. Yes, we plan on doing a full podcast on this topic some time in the near future… if we could […]
Another reader sent via MU 🙂 Bf had us listen to this podcast the other day because the Beeb features in the story. My old man and I both have BBC Micro computers (the ones my sibs and I would play on growing up in the late 80s and early 90s), and interested in seeing if it’s still possible to attempt contact with 2109.
Question is, does Edword 2 need to be on a ROM cartridge, or will a floppy disk version work?
Also, not sure what the going rate for a Beeb is these day, but the retro gaming magazines a few years ago would have adverts for them secondhand around £40-£50 if anyone’s thinking of finding one themselves 🙂 They can connect to regular old CRT TV sets. Apparently not all had the capability to slot in ROM cartridges so I guess that’s another thing to look out for.
We had no luck with anything other than the Edword ROM for some reason, it seemed to be an important component – communication pretty much stopped via the computer when this was removed. Edword 2 seemed better than Edword 1. It would be interesting to see what you get if you are able to set this up, especially as it’s now affordable to keep a digital camera running all the time on the computer which was not possible in the early 80’s. We can’t afford the disruption to our lives again, as few people can these days, sadly you don’t get to chose when the ‘genie’ goes back in the bottle, so don’t attempt to do this unless your lifestyle permits this, otherwise keep us informed here if you get anything.
Could 2109’s work in canada possibly relate to writing on stone park in canada and the natural portals that open up there to what has been termed the universal highway that exists outside of structure and time that Ardie Sixkiller-Clarke refers to in her book? Could the green color they refer to in book refer to the same color the guys from the eldridge described when one of them would get ‘stuck in the green which sounds like a place outside of structure and ‘time’ as most understand time. and could that be the same place that tesla stumbled into during one of his experiments and the same place that engineer in alabama stumbled into during some work with gravity . the portals like the ones in canada exist in other parts of the world. Also wonder if the math that Bruce Cathie discusses in his books be helpful in better understanding the nature of these portals that give acess to a dimension outside of structure and time.
One wonders if TH’s book is on the oxford campus someplace or with the Queen of England . Just thinking about TH’s refs to oxford and the 2109 quip about the pusscat going to london to visit the queen.
Wonder about the idea that past present and future exist side by side with the past and the future exchanging information to create the present moment and each ‘slice of the future or past being always a fully functional reality of a different temporal frequency. Could the dimension outside of time and structure be the dimension that gives rise to what we call our 3-D reality and could it be acessed using some combination of RF + EM resonance + high voltage static electricity . Wonder if that is the dimension the ETs refer to when trying to expain to human how they travel vast distances –ie the room filled with jelly analogy … they simply step out into the hall where no jelly is and walk down the hall and come into another door at the other end of the room . since humans only exist in the jelly filled room they can only travel slowly …while the ET seems to have done something magical to fucntion outside of time and structure. Wonder if that ‘hallway” is the same travel medium the guy with the green light used to place the computer in 1528 and the same one the Native American person used in the writing on the stone park in canada. One also wonders if the reason the dream thing worked was because the human conciousness can exist outside of time and structure and it is only the microtubules acting as quantum antenna that seem to keep it limited to the 3-d world and something about rem sleep that allows human consiousness to wonder away from those microtubules a bit to sometimes gather info from other places. 😉
WOW,. I am still ploughing through this interesting material. Sounds like you have certainly been doing some wondering, and research. Best wishes with your efforts.
Gary M Rowe 7
Long time ago I got this book from my dear friend living in Dodleston who had know Ken @ Debbie, personally. John visited me in Poland and VP was a special gift for me. My plan was to translate into Polish, but I borrowed it to my best student of English classes and I lost it for ever. Gary, lots of thanks for your replies to people who are fascinated in the subject, like me.
Great news Debs. I’ll be getting myself a special Christmas present, maybe? Thanks again. I’ve found mention of Tomas in an Oxford publication, but I think Robin Peedell already used the same source. I’ll continue to hunt…
The book is being re-released on the 14th on Amazon.co.uk for about $23 (US) – 16.65£
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/000828833X/ref=od_aui_bia_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Very interesting discussion of this fascinating case. It is great to see Mr Rowe active and discussing the case but I wonder where Mr Webster is now. A rigorous film or documentary is definitely called for. As a general observation, Cheshire is very rich in paranormal lore/events and Alan Garner’s famous Cheshire novel Red Shift also contains a ‘Vertical Plane’ cutting across time and space (though I think it predates Mr Webster’s book by some years). Interesting that Mr Rowe sees a plethora of synchronicities involved in the whole event, including the book and its publication.The messages from 2109 on poltergeists, tachyons and other matters are also fascinating.
Gary Rowe. Just got the book today. Am I right that chapter 19 is important?
youtube.com/watch?v=1WXSjRvOYr4
Thank you Nick for publishing this blog post (which I have only just found from last year!). Clearly, your historical credentials are impeccable with your academic research, which makes your interest and willingness to investigate the issues around ‘The Vertical Plane’ so exceptional (and thank you for the academic research also that have put in and made available on the subject of Thomas Hawarden). There is so much interesting material and comments that people have put on your blog about this subject that I have been avidly studying – so thank you everyone for sharing so much information and ideas! And to have Gary Rowe write here regarding his own personal involvement with the case sharing some ideas regarding the elusive intelligence 2109 is very good indeed. Thank you Gary for sharing and in trying to help others understand more about what was going on. I think we have not heard the last of 2109!
Nick, Is there any chance that you could contact me regarding your own investigations regarding ‘The Vertical Plane’? My email address is ceepotter at yahoo dot co dot uk. I am particularly interested in Thomas Hawarden and tracing his movements (as far as extant historical sources permit) after leaving Dodlestone. You appear to have achieved much in tracing him to the postition of vicar at Little Barrington. I am curious how Thomas would have been accepted within an ecclesiastical position at a time when his apparent devotion to the Pope would have made his bid to hold such an office highly suspect, if not untenable. I would have thought that under the reign of Mary Tudor 1i 1553 he would have received more consideration. Are you able to help clarify this Nick? And through your research you have discovered that by 1554 he seems to have vacated the position. So the trail appears to have gone cold? Are there any more traces of him that you know of? Do you think that his death and place of burial can be discovered? I wonder if he returned to his beloved Oxford?
I first read ‘The Vertical Plane’ around the time it was originally published. I gave my copy away to a friend. When my interest was rekindled last year (out of nowhere it seems) I chose to borrow a copy from my local library as an Inter-Library Loan (so if any one else wants a book that has been out of print that is the step that you need to take). Then out of the blue it has been republished as from December last year (2017)! There seems to be an amazing surge of interest in this book and its amazing story – yet there has been no TV programme or similar that may have acted to rekindle such an interest). I find this most interesting (and I would not be at all surprised if that trans-dimensional intelligence known as 2109 was not somehow behind it). So now we have something of a rolling Zeitgeist that may yet lead to new revelations and new information and, hopefully, new understanding. With mankind and the planet on the precipice of such a nexus of potential catastrophes and yet the spiritual transformation of man is side by side taking place makes me wonder whether we are on a cusp that could take us either way.
I think that the book does justice in its obligations to reduce the possibility or charges of a hoax (either by themselves or others) very well. The actions of the SPR were appalling (but more of the arrogant and prejudiced thoughtless behaviour of the two ‘investigators’ sent in rather than due to the collective integrity of the SPR). Hoax can never be entirely ruled out sadly as the events were never under strict laboratory conditions, but sufficient was done in my view with Gary Rowe (an independent investigator) to reduce many non-paranormal possibilities.
If we are to proceed sensibly and progressively we need to take what we have been given and pursue the matter with a measure of cautious acceptance. So we take the position that a hoax can reasonably be ruled out, so we are left with the stance of what are we dealing with, what is the nature of the paranormal source (ie is it benevolent, malevolvent, is it extraterrestrial, dimensional, from our future, or from a parallel universe?) Are there similar parallels? I think that an interdisciplinary stance helps to approach this subject more clearly as we may have other similar cases of contact from the past.
A film of these events would be intriguing – and long overdue. Such an amazing case like the Dodlestone Communications is, in my view, one of the most profound and important occurrences of a paranormal nature that has occurred. I just hope that Hollywood doesn’t touch it and turn it into some romance across time (‘When the Lights Go Out’ was an exceptionally well-made account of the famous Black Monk of Pontefract case – and that was a British film!).
Hello myne goodly freends!
I’m so pleased to find this site! And it’s fantastic that Gary Rowe and Deb are here too. I have so many questions I want to ask but I’ll save them for another post. Just wanted to say hi to you all. I first read The Vertical Plane around 1996 when I was 20. I found a copy in a charity shop and thought it looked fascinating. I have no idea why but o at Christmas I had a strong g desire to read it again – even though I’d mostly completely forgotten about the subject in the intervening years. It’s weird as when I looked it up I found out it was being reprinted around the same time. It’s great to be able to have the book on Kindle. I’d love to know what Tomas would have made of electronic books! I was always convinced that the events were real. The story has a ring of truth to it that a hoax doesn’t. I can also see no reason why any of the people in the story would want to make it all up. However I found on ‘re reading the book all these years later and being a lot older, that I understood it more. It just went deeper with me the second time. And pondering on 2109, I have some theories about them. I will post my thoughts soon along with some questions for Gary Rowe, if he is willing and able to answer. Just great to be able to discuss the story now with the advent of the internet! I’d live to k ow what Tomas would have thought of that too!
Another point that strikes me as important but overlooked a bit about the story is at the end of the book when Ken says he contacted the SPR but they had no idea who Dave Welch and Nick Sowerby-Johnson were. Anyone else find that disturbing?
A couple of things occur to me about them:
1.) Were they ‘sent by someone/ some other ‘group’ to find out what was going on?
2.) If so – who sent them? Were they possibly from the MOD?
I wonder because they sound a bit like the mysterious ‘men in black who reportedly often show up to question people over alleged UFO/ paranormal ‘incidents.
This would sort of for my theory of 2109 being some sort of alien beings/intelligence….
3.) Were both men somehow part of 2109’s ‘manipulations’ ?
I’d be very interested in Gary Rowe’s opinion on the above. And Deb too – if she is still around and willing to answer.
Hi everyone. Just been to the church at little barrington. I think its our man Thomas. Some of the wall paintings were the sMe as thomas’ reciting test he had in his early years. Very interesting and cool church . Will post more soon. Regards
Hello everyone. Finally got my hands on a copy of the book! Great read so far, very interesting. Will post again after i have finished the book. I’m sure it will spark quite the conversation.
well, if tomas did eventually become a vicar, and taking note of the last sentence of the 2109 verse. Should not rule possiblility that the book is safely in the hands of the Quuen of england’s library or with The Church of england.
Seems reasonable for him to gift the book to the Queen/King who is the head of the Church of England in exchange for a quiet life of a vicar . Would be better than always having to be concerned about the witchcraft charge….just some thoughts.
Does Gary Rowe still read this thread, anyone know? Is there a way to contact him to ask him to come back here to read the messages to him?
One of Gary’s earlier posts included an email address at the bottom, I think. He may be busy at the moment and not have the time to get involved in lengthy posts, though I’m fascinated to read what he has written here. I finished my copy of the VP book a few days ago, having ordered it from Amazon after listening to the MU podcast. Have always been fascinated by time slips, and books concerning this subject and am extremely interested in all aspects of this story.
Hi Gary, if you read this I hope it finds you well. I have not seen you for many years now.
Strangely the last few days I have felt compelled to read / follow certain twitter users and through various links and other stories unrelated to VP have found myself here. Also I have felt compelled to read my copy of VP since last week before finding this thread. I have had my cherished book for around 20 odd years now I think, which was signed by KW and your good self and will be safe in my bookcase forever. But this week I will read it again, even more closely than the times I have read it already and also follow the links given by Nick. I hope to visit Little Barrington in the not too distant future too. Love to Chris
Hi Carole90842,
We are both well. Hope all is well with you. Please feel free to contact me by dandare@uwclub. net. Or by land phone.
Great to hear from you again, sorry for long delay in answering.
Gary Rowe
NUMBER 7: Gary, here is an excerpt from the Google map of Dodleston: “Dodleston is a village and civil parish in the unitary authority of Cheshire West and Chester and the ceremonial county of Cheshire, situated on the border between England and Wales. At the 2001 census, the population of Dodleston was 777, …”
WOW, Yet another reminder of the astonishing ability that some people have.
Thank you very much for this info
GARY
Dear Mr Rowe, I’m glad you are still reading this blog and replying. I hope if you have the time, you will come back and continue to answer questions. Your input is greatly appreciated. I first read the book in the 90s, when I was 18. I found a used copy at a used book fair by chance and still have it. I felt urged to read it again last year for some reason. I found this blog and posted some comments..Then I forgot about it again, being busy with life I guess. Today I had the strangest experience. I really was not thinking about the book or anything connected with it but was just on the train coming home from a long day and the thought of 2109 just popped in my head. I don’t know why now again but I just kept thinking about ‘them’ all evening and then other ideas were coming into my mind. I realised that now, in 2019, we stand 90 years exactly apart from them and I keep feeling that 2019 is or will be significant to 2109 and the whole story in some way. I don’t know why, or where these feelings are coming from, but I just got a flood of impressions and thoughts about this today. Again, no idea why today. I haven’t even thought about the book in nearly 2 years…
Hi, Highpriestess,2017
You should always trust your instincts.
Some times this is the only way you can be contacted.
I am not able to talk about this subject at present as a lot is happening and I am up to my neck in it.
Best wishes
Gary M Rowe
At the time of this incident I was working.for M&S Financial Services which was being overseen by the Royal Bank of Scotland. Both based in Chester. As an “employee” we would receive the RBS monthly business paper. Mostly full of boring content but I do remember an article on this subject and a photo showing Mr Webster and his girlfriend. He was working as an IT contractor for RBS. I’ve always been aware of this story (I lived very close by) but this is the first ever time I’ve heard of 2109.
Here is a thought…
Thomas did write the book .
No one will ever find that book …not in this time line .
The info they gave him from 1985 that he used to write the book created a another time line that included that information ….and his ‘modified’ future and the book hidden at Oxford . Thomas’s book is indeed somewhere on the Oxford campus , but is an Oxford campus that resides in a different time-line than the one we currently exist in.
I think from our perspective …the book will never be found…
Fascinating idea! You could well be right! Although that would be disappointing…. I hold out hope the book will someday be discovered in this timeline, even if not in my lifetime! I’m in my early 40s, so maybe there’s still time….I’m a historian based in London, and I’m in academia so could probably get access to some of the academic libraries in Oxford. I’ve pondered about going there and trying to search for it but seems like it would be a long shot. Although…I’ve also wondered whether the book would still be in Oxford at all, if it does exist in this timeline. Perhaps it got moved around and ended up in London or somewhere else.
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I’ve been doing a bit on digging online, and I found some further mentions of Thomas. This in a wikipedia entry about the history of Brasenose College, which states:
“The first two principals of the college, Matthew Smyth and John Hawarden, successfully navigated the college through the reformation period. The college retained strong Catholic tendencies, and support for the reforms of Henry VIII and Edward VIII was minimal. The Chapel’s Dean, Thomas Hawarden, was opposed to the reforms, and was once called to the King’s Privy Council to answer for his actions. Eventually, though, the continuing reforms were carried through.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Brasenose_College,_Oxford
Here: https://archive.org/stream/brasenosecolleg00bras/brasenosecolleg00bras_djvu.txt
1530
HA WARDEN (Harden), Thomas. Fellow (Founders) ; B.A. 12 Dec.
1530; M.A. 17 Mar. 153$.
And here, where it mentions the incident of not removing the pope’s name and being called before the King to answer for it (page 171-172):
https://warburg.sas.ac.uk/pdf/nbm110b2372691v2.1.pdf
I just found this new podcast on the story from last month.
https://www.darkhistories.com/the-dodleston-messages-ghost-in-the-machine/