Ghost in the machine
by Nick
A slightly belated Halloween post.
I was 14 when the first season of The X-Files was broadcast on UK television. This was the perfect age to become obsessed with the programme’s mix of aliens, ghosts and conspiracy theories. Like Fox Mulder, I wanted to believe. The series sparked an obsession that made me an eager viewer of the other – mostly awful – programmes which tried to cash in on the 1990s vogue for the paranormal. Amongst the most awful was a BBC series – it may have been the one presented by Carol Vorderman, although I can’t recall for certain – which was a ragbag of “strange but true” stories presented through dramatic reconstructions. I can remember very little about it, save for one episode that has always stayed with me.
It told the story of a man in the early 1980s, who found that his BBC Micro computer had become a conduit through which he could communicate with a man from the sixteenth century. The latter was mystified by the “box of lights” which had appeared in his house, and accused the computer owner of witchcraft. Gradually, however, as the two carried on their electronic conversations a more trusting relationship developed. The programme concluded by stating that archival research supposedly revealed that the sixteenth-century man had actually existed, and that expert linguists had concluded that the dialect and vocabulary he used was authentic to the period.
A few weeks ago – fifteen years on – a memory of this story popped back into my head for some reason. Some quick Googling revealed that other people remembered it too; and that the man in question, Ken Webster, had written a book about his experience called The Vertical Plane. Intrigued, I ordered a second-hand copy and spent a happy afternoon reacquainting myself with the story. The book badges itself as “a unique supernatural detective story”, and one look at the cover gives an early warning that it was published by Harper Collins’s “occult” division.
You may or may not be relieved to know that this isn’t going to be a post about whether Webster’s account is true. Instead, I thought it might be interesting to consider Webster’s book as a cultural artifact in its own right. Webster’s book has quite a lot going on beneath the surface, which will perhaps be of interest to early modernists who study texts and the different forms they can take. So this post does two things. First, it summarises the story Webster sets out in his book. Secondly, it looks at how Webster tells his story, and how his own text and narrative link to early modern ideas about texts and narratives.
Webster’s story starts in the autumn of 1984, in the village of Dodleston near to the English border with Wales. He is living in Meadow Cottage, an eighteenth-century house in the middle of the village, with his girlfriend Debbie and friend Nicola. Webster borrows a BBC Micro computer from the school at which teaches, so that Nicola can use the word processor (EDWORD, for others who grew up with the Beeb) to write comedy sketches. All three are alarmed when files start appearing on the computer with messages in an archaic form of English, signed “L.W.” The messages are accompanied by various poltergeist phenomena, such as objects being moved or piled in particular formations.
L.W. gradually reveals himself as Lukas Wainman, living in a house on the site of Meadow Cottage during Henry VIII’s marriage to Catherine Parr (ie at some point between 1543 and 1547). He kept various livestock on the land around his house. He had been married with a son, but both wife and child died of the plague in 1517. He had studied at Brasenose College, Oxford and knew Erasmus, having met him three times in all.
A friend of Lukas’s then starts communicating: it turns out that Lukas has been arrested and is being held by the local sheriff, Sir Thomas Fowleshurst, due to his communications with the ‘light box’ or ‘leems boyste” as Lukas calls it, in his house. The friend also reveals that ‘Lukas’ is a pseudonym. Lukas is then released and held under house arrest, resuming communication and confessing how scared he is of the fate that could await him. He also reveals that the ‘leems boyste’ was brought to his house by someone called ‘one’, from the year 2109. ‘Lukas’ had been under the impression that Webster was also from 2109 until the latter says that he is living in 1985.
An unnamed contact from 2109 then starts leaving impenetrable messages on the BBC, saying that the events they are experiencing have a wider purpose. In the meantime Webster and his friends try to think of a way to save Lukas’s life. They remember a chance reference by Lukas to Henry Mann, Dean of Chester and find information in the present that Mann had in 1533 communicated with Elizabeth Barton, the so-called “Maid of Kent”. Barton was a Catholic nun who had made prophecies critical of Henry VIII’s marriage to Anne Boleyn, and who was executed as a result in 1534. Webster gives this information to Lukas to use as a bargaining chip with the sheriff. However, it doesn’t work, and Lukas goes on trial regardless: but is kept alive to keep the light box working. During this period Thomas Fowleshurst begins to use the box to communicate with Webster and it emerges that events are happening in 1546.
Communication is re-established with Lukas, but with further intervention and inscrutable comments from 2109. Webster and Lukas begin to suspect that 2109 is changing their messages, and develop a system where Lukas starts communicating with paper and charcoal left out for him in the present (Lukas meanwhile is able somehow to see and hear Webster in the past). Though this means Lukas reveals that his real name is Tomas (sic) Harden/Hawarden, a graduate of Brasenose who had been dean of the chapel there but was expelled in 1538 for refusing to expunge the name of the Pope from a book in the chapel, as was required by law after the break with Rome. 2109 become extremely irritated that Webster has learnt Wainman’s real name, and demand that he stops disrupting their experiments.
Eventually, the Grosvenor family – Harden’s landlords – demand that he leaves his house. Harden leaves a final message wishing Webster and his friends well, and stating that he will go to Bristol to buy a horse then see if he is welcome again at Brasenose. He says that he will write a book about the events, and hopes that some day they might meet so he can read Webster’s book and Webster his. Harden is then never heard from again, although Webster finds a reference to him – or at least someone with his name – becoming vicar at Little Barrington in Gloucestershire from 1551 to 1554. The tale is rounded off with some final, ever-cryptic communications from 2109.
One of the themes which emerges most strongly from The Vertical Plane‘s narrative is the instability of texts. Webster’s ghost is a textual ghost. Although Harden seems able to see and hear what is happening in the present, Webster himself never sees Harden (although his girlfriend, Debbie, sees him in her dreams on several occasions). Instead, he primarily interacts with Harden through various forms of textual communication, none of which the reader can rely on:
- Through the letters on Webster’s computer monitor. Some of these – Webster never knows which – are altered in subtle ways by 2109. Others are deleted by mistake, meaning that Webster has to summarise what he can recollect of them.
- Through printed copies of those same letters. A number of these are also subsequently lost, and again we rely on Webster’s memory of them for the content of his narrative.
- Through manuscript notes which Harden scratches onto surfaces in the present-day Meadow Cottage, or writes on scraps of paper. The materiality of these notes inclines Webster to place the most faith in them, even though they are often the shortest and most cryptic of Harden’s statements.
Harden communicates through different identities: directly as Lukas Wainman then as Tomas Harden, and second-hand through an unnamed friend and through the sheriff Thomas Fowleshurst. He also sets traps for Webster, in attempt to assess whether he is really from the future. For example, he claims to have done his degree at Jesus College, Oxford, which at that time did not exist: anyone from the future, Harden reasons, would surely know there is no such thing as Jesus College and that it is nonsensical to claim to have studied there. Webster, meanwhile, sees this as a “mistake” which could point to the presence of a hoaxer.
And Webster and Harden themselves also take steps to further mediate how their texts are received. Both try to modify their grammar and vocabulary so as to make it easier for the other to understand. Harden also modifies his hand-writing to try to make it as clear as possible. Webster’s own narrative then further mediates Harden’s, by ‘translating’ his texts. Harden’s original is presented in upper case, with a rendering in modern English below in lower case as with this example:
MYNE GOODLY FOOL MYNE LINKMAN THINKETH THAT THOU ART BE AL IN MYNE PAN H’SAYETH THAT ME MAKETH LYK DIVINSTRE BUT I KNOW YOW LYVE NOWE HE ALS SAYETH THAT MYNE BLOOD BE POYSOND AN THAT IT BE MYNE WEEK HIGNED FANCY BUT LUNE ME NAT METHENKE AN TOLDE HEM SO I ALS SEID ‘TIS LYK FAIRYMGOLD AN THAT TO HOLD IT CLOSE TIL ME WRYTS BOOKE.
My pleasant fool, my servant, thinks that you are all in my head. He says I act like a seer but I know you live now. He also says that my blood is poisoned and that it is my weak-hinged imagination; but I am not mad, I think, and told him so. I also said it is like fairy gold [that he should] keep it secret until I write a book.
The result is a patchwork of overlapping, unstable narratives, which through their structure resist any attempt to derive a “true” version of the story. Harden makes this point explicitly at one stage:
METHYNK YOW ARN A HISTORIE BOKE THAT HATH ITS FRONTE AN BACK SKYN JOYNANT WE ARN EECHE A SYDE
I think we are a history book that has its front and back pages joined together. We are each a side of it.
Indeed, Harden states at various points that he is writing his own book about these events: a completely alternative meta-narrative to set against Webster’s, albeit one that the reader is not privy to. Others clearly are, though: 2109 say that Harden’s book will be found one day. We are left, as a result, with the impression that yet another side to the story remains to be told.
The way in which layers of different textual forms impose themselves upon each other, adding to or contradicting each other, is not unlike the way in which the real Harden might have experienced the textual culture of sixteenth-century England. The bound, printed and unannotated book was by no means the prevailing manifestation of textual culture in early modern England. Textual forms which to modern eyes appear much less ‘settled’ than print interacted both in partnership and in tension with the printed book. Commonplace books reproduced text from printed sources while at the same time subverting it to the owner’s own needs. Manuscript newsletters co-existed with printed newsbook. Printed almanacs provided space for owners to hand-write their own annotations. While we are used to looking for linear, narrative compositions put together by a clear author and generating a fixed meaning, early modern writers and readers were willing to cut and paste material from different types and forms of texts, to create texts embedded within texts or texts that co-existed alongside others. People creating and using early modern texts had a much more creative understanding of the possibilities of textual culture than we have, until recently, given them credit for.
Given all this, the ease with which Webster’s sixteenth-century counterpart adjusts to the different forms of communicating with him is perhaps not so far-fetched. Harden’s sense of confusion and wonder is reserved for the ‘leems boyste’: where has it come from, and how does it glow so? But he adjusts very quickly to communicating with Webster in different textual media, and becomes adept at flitting back and forth between them. As a student at Brasenose, he would no doubt have been just as adept at negotiating printed and manuscript versions of texts. He alludes to a relaxed attitude about “remixing” different forms when Webster leaves out a picture of Erasmus which subsequently disappears, taken by Harden back to his own time:
THANK YE FOR THY PORTREYING ME SHALT HATH IT PORTRAYD IN MYNE BOKE OF YOW TIME.
Thank you for the picture. I shall have it put in my book about your time.
Webster’s narrative is, on the surface, a supernatural detective story which strives after truth. Who is/was Tomas Harden? Did he really exist? Were his communications real, or faked by someone with a good knowledge of the sources? Webster’s character devotes considerable energy during the early days of the haunting – if that is what it was – to researching early modern Chester and its surroundings. He is jubilant when Thomas Fowleshurst, the first verifiable character they come across, makes an appearance. He is even more jubilant when Robin Peedell, an assistant librarian in 1980s Brasenose, identifies Harden in the college records and Harden confirms who he is. But it is significant that Webster’s character also quickly grows fed up with this quest for truth:
I became bored… I wanted to go home, to read about something else.
And so Webster’s book can also be read, exercising one’s freedom as a reader, as an exploration of the relativity of truth. There is not just ambiguity in Webster’s narrative; there is layer upon layer of ambiguity, driven by the way he sets out his different narratives. Whether they are intended to echo the writing and reading practices of Harden’s contemporaries is not clear. But it is also, perhaps, not the point. Texts in whatever form are unstable, shifting media that resist attempts by authors to impose a fixed meaning upon them. In reading Webster’s story I have found my own meaning in it. In retelling it, I have used a particular structure, a long-form blog post, in a particular medium, the electronic text, both of which will shape how it is received. And in reading it, you will no doubt impose your own meanings on my telling of Webster’s telling of Harden’s life. Whether you read it as fact, metaphor or a simple ghost story, I hope you enjoyed it.
- Through the letters on Webster’s computer monitor. Some of these – Webster never knows which – are altered in subtle ways by 2109. Others are deleted by mistake, meaning that Webster has to summarise what he can recollect of them.
- Through printed copies of those same letters. A number of these are also subsequently lost, and again we rely on Webster’s memory of them for the content of his narrative.
- Through manuscript notes which Harden scratches onto surfaces in the present-day Meadow Cottage, or writes on scraps of paper. The materiality of these notes inclines Webster to place the most faith in them, even though they are often the shortest and most cryptic of Harden’s statements.
Mercurius Politicus 
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Sharon Howard, Brett Holman. Brett Holman said: @mercpol on the Dodleston messages: instant messaging with the 16th century http://bit.ly/df7ev5 […]
[…] ghost of Lukas Wainman: by contrast I spent about a week crafting this post, which is as much about me as it is Wainman, […]
I’m delighted to have come across this blog and to learn that someone else remembers this particular story/episode. Like you, I too developed a fascination with paranormal stories around the time that X-Files was broadcast (I was always a sceptic, even at that age, but the stories still fascinated and frightened me). This particular story about the Dodleston BBC computer poltergeist always stuck with me and I’ve never come across anyone else who remembers seeing it on TV, much to my frustration.
If I recall correctly, I think that the programme was called ‘Out of this World’ and was indeed presented by Carol Vorderman. It was kind of like a crappier version of ‘Strange But True’ (if that’s even possible). I remember that the couple who lived in the house came home to find something scribbled on the kitchen floor in chalk (not sure if that was before or after the first messages appeared n their BBC). I also remember a scene when they came home to find all their pots and pans suspended from the floor up to the ceiling. Initially they struck up a friendly conversation with their poltergeist but eventually it turned malevolent.
I’ve occasionally come across similar stories told before and after this programme was aired (numerous variations of messages being written on unplugged computers, and so on), so I’m intrigued as to whether the Dodleston story was the original or if perhaps he’d plagiarised it from someone else.
i watched the very same programme. it was carole vordaman and it stuck in my mind too.one of the first things i did when i got my first computer was to go to ms dos,type in calling 2109 and left it on overnight in the naive hope i might get an answer and after the rise of the internet spent time trawling for more accurate information.as funnily enough doing that very same thing right now.
I’ve only read The Vertical Plane,years ago.Never forgot it,2109 was the most interesting aspect to me.This is an old blog now,anyone still interested?
Yes, I am! I still have the paperback. Truly fascinating!
Thank you so much for this blog! It’s been a massive help in writing a blog of my own about strange happenings http://i-heart-my.co.uk/?p=176
Delighted to have happened upon this blog. I’m currently re-reading The Vertical Plane, which has fascinated me ever since a friend recommended it to me in the late 1980s. In effect, Webster and Lukas/Tomas are communicating in the way we do now almost without thinking; they are sending e-mail messages to one another, or Facebooking. I wonder if the author still resides at the cottage or, if he has moved on, whether current incumbents have also experienced strange phenomena. Whether the book is an elaborate fiction or a straightforward retelling of actual events is somewhat immaterial. To my mind this is a unique and fascinating book, not too well written by the author (which tends to dismiss any hoax viz the apparently verified spelling and grammar of Lukas/Tomas et al from the past) and stands alone among modern fiction/storytelling/historical reportage – whichever it may be. Verification may of course be made if Lukas/Tomas’ book is one day discovered, as the mysterious collective 2109 suggests will happen. That will mark a huge shift in the way we see time travel. I do hope it happens in my lifetime.
Many people are highly sceptical about the events related in the Vertical plane book. Quite rightly so, given the degree of strangeness
But, I am not.
I had the opportunity to investigate these happenings first hand. No, I am not some away with the fairies wishful believer.I investigated with professional detachment not bothered what I would find. Fake or fact.
I left no stone unturned and used cutting edge science to get to the truth.In fact I believe it was the first computer controlled psychic investigation recorded in the world.
I don’t care two hoots if nobody ever believes it. I KNOW It really happened. It changed my life forever.It is going to change yours. The book should/will one day be ISBN recoded under the “history” section. It is a monumental historical marker in the ribbon of time
Gary, I have not had the privilege to read the book but am another person who was lucky enough to stumble upon the story through the Mysterious Universe podcast and find the implications fascinating. While I’m far from understanding the topics the story broaches upon, I’ve been on my own “quest” in a way to understand the universe, and I feel like your involvement in the topic showcases that you know something important. Will the public ever get to hear your side of the story?
Thank you for your enquiry. I would only ever be able to tell more if 2109 said that I should. I can of course talk as much as I wish regarding the general events. The equipment I used, and my involvement.There is much you could gleen from studying the book at length.There are a lot of clues (sadly) in between the lines.Best wishes Gary
Hello Gary,
You mention in recent posts that you could speak regarding the general events. You also mention that you shouldn’t underestimate the capabilities of 2109. Can you elaborate on that? Also, what was the nature of your sealed envelope communications between yourself and 2109? The Mysterious Universe podcasts mentioned that there were objects passed. What were they? Since The Vertical Plane book is so difficult to obtain these days, can you speak specifically about your side of the story? Also, have you had any further communication between yourself and 2109?
I appreciate and look forward to your response.
Hi Bingo Barnes,
Firstly my advice is to try much harder to obtain a copy of the book. I have had a communication that intimates that a film company are at last considering making this into a film.I do not know if you can realise the implications of this, but basically if you think that the book is hard to get now and expensive just wait until it has become a film. I would think that this will turn out to be quite a good investment. After all my £3.99 copy is now worth hundreds!! I can not believe that it has taken this long for some film company to see the potential in this story. After all it would be ideal to rewrite in their own way and just say it is based on a true story.?
I do hope that they do not change it in any way. I know that hey would regret it later.
RE.The capabilities of 2109: If you can believe that they were able to actually, physically, travel hundreds of years into the past to deliver the aperatus/machine/computer/monitor? (the “LEEMS MUST”) that made communications possible in those not so technical days.add to this their ability to put messages into a modern none doctored BBC computer despite it being inside a Faraday shield and only connected to the electricity via a mains cleaner filter.! coupled with this, They also knew all of my personal details that NO ONE but me were privileged to.What else might you suppose that they are capable of.
You can assume that any questions that I have not answered here, Are currently out of bounds for me to answer.
If you read the book you will have many other questions. Some of which I would hope I may be able to answer.
I hope that I have been of some small use.
My best wishes to you and any one looking into this incredible happening.
Regards
Gary
The Verticle Plane is being re-released on Dec. 14, 2017 – you may prchase on Amazon.co.uk for about $23 US I’ve wanted this title for a very long time! https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/000828833X/ref=od_aui_bia_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Gary, I have recently obtained a copy of the book, and just finished reading it. I will continue studying it as you say there is much to learn and clues to find. I know you will not talk about your personal communications with 2109, but might speak about the general event. Do you know if anyone has searched for Thomas Hawarden’s book? Do you know what has become of the cottage in Dodleston now?
2109 says that a person will come along to help, and that Ken will know who that person is. What do you think of that? I would love to talk to you more personally about the event. Some of the things I have read in this book are shocking.
“The eyes are open yet nothing do you see. The grey retarding mass is your convict. Quietly, alone he sits in the dark waiting for sentence to be passed, and demanding through the eyes of the blind of unspoken questions to answers of ethereal kind. The soul he is the traveler, chain nor bar can hold him to frail flesh. Here is the ruler of time and space. Here is your God”
How would one begin to go about contacting 2109? I know you say there is a price to pay, just as 2109 tells Ken and Deb and Peter there is a price to pay, and for the man who is prepared to lose mind, body and soul must step forward. Is the information too complex for us to comprehend?
I’m another who only discovered the Dodleston messages story through the MU podcast. I’m reading this thread with interest, though I have little insight to offer.
You’re so lucky to have found the book! I’m trying to get a copy through my local library to no avail (as yet?) Mr. Rowe: if the Vertical Plane does become a film, what are the odds that it might be reprinted?
Greetings Allison,
Sorry I can’t answer your question properly.
I had nothing to do with the book. Or its sales.I suspect that you are right. If it does become a film, then I would have thought they would reprint the book. Though it is usually the other way round.
glad you got a copy. that is quite an achievement in its self. Hang on to it, as it will go up in value.
Best wishes
Gary
Hey Alex,
Would you consider photocopying your copy of The Vertical Plane and posting it online? or emailing it to me? I’ve been searching everywhere for it but can’t find it anywhere. So it’s not a waste of your time, I can pay you?
Hi all interested in reading the VP.
If you are one of the lucky ones who own a copy, why don’t you consider renting it out to others. You could charge a high deposit which you could partially refund after it’s safe return.
Sorry if I’ve asked too much. I am very interested. In one message, when 2109 says to put your computer into edword/star, they mention geographic location is usually essential. Would contact with them require being closer to the U.K?
Also, in the same message they say- “May we remind you that you have seen some of our handy work- Canada?!?!”
What does this mean? Are they referencing a paranormal/UFO event?
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the Emails,
glad to see you were able to get a copy of the book. That in itself is quite an achievement these days.
There is much that you can discover reading between the lines with care. I believe that 2109 have manipulated all concerned, without their knowing it. That I believe also includes Ken Webster to pen exactly that which they are happy for ordinary sceptics to know but also slightly more hidden/deeper information for the much “wiser” person to use in order to gain information which they would like them to know.
As far as I am aware, the cottage is still standing.
Could “that person” be me?
You asked “how would one go about contacting 2109”
First you should determine why you would want to contact them.
If it is to seek information from them. Forget it. I believe they have left as much information as they are willing to reveal at the present time.
They are not to be played with. They are not a correspondence school. You don’t contact them .They contact you.
Perhaps if you consider why they picked me. You might discover how you could make yourself available, should they wish to contact you. But know this…you must be a man of your word.
They would have no difficulty in making you understand what they are saying. They can make the difficult easy to comprehend.
I believe that they can make communication possible anywhere of their choosing. and it would seem through any kind of media.
As for “Canada” You have the same clue here as Had. I am happy to have found an answer. Impress me (and possibly 2109) go find yours.
Thomas Harwarden’s book has not been found yet.
I have answered your questions as best I am able. My advice to anyone interested in this event: There is a wealth of information in the book. Use common sense and also try to read between the lines a bit.
Best wishes with your research. There is much you could learn,
CLUE for genuine seekers.: Though perhaps I should not tell you this, try looking at chapter? 7.
Please let me know how you get on
Regards Gary
PS hang on to your copy of the book as it looks like it is just about to get more valuable.
Gary, thank you so much for the information, and for replying so quickly. I’m replying to your comment since I can’t reply to the one you left me for some reason.
I don’t really want to contact 2109 for information. I’m just very interested in the messages between Ken and 2109 regarding Fermat’s Last Theorem, and calling 2109’s “Bluff”.
I think if anyone in the world were to know if they were “the person”, you would probably most likely as it seems you have had the most meaningful/intimate contact with them. In the book, 2109 says that a person will come, which is after they tell Ken and Deb to contact you. So my belief right now is that the person to come is maybe the person meant to find Thomas’ book?
I’ll continue to study the book and read between the lines, especially chapter 7. Thank you for the clues.
Hi Alex,
Glad you finally got my message.
Always interesting to hear what others think about it all.
You expressed an interest about Fermats last theorem.
As you saw in the book, this question was put to 2109 as a way to determine if they were from the future when a solution might have been found. You will note, 2109 did not decline to provide an answer, but it was conditional. The question putter was not prepared to accept the condition.
So no solution was forthcoming.
I have an imaginary scenario to put before you. for your meditation. Imagine if you will this:…
You end up in the same situation. I.e..trying to prove to your own satisfaction that 2109 is real, and that they may be from the future. You would need to come up with questions that would positively reveal the truth to your satisfaction. Ones that only people from the future might be able to answer. You have decided that you would accept any conditions, unlike your predecessor.
Perhaps you might think that others had already come up with one, quite good question to include in your investigation.
Trouble is this is a very complex piece of mathematics that has stumped the worlds top scientists and mathematicians, the experts, the good and the great, for years. If they told you the answer was 42 (forgive me, I obviously made this up). it would probably be meaningless to you (It most certainly would be to me). (Mathematics is my worst subject.)unless you had access to one of the worlds mathematical geniuses, the answer would be useless to you as proof.
Even trying to contact them with the answer would cause a sensation. as you would then be heralded as the discoverer.
But suppose that you were told that you could have the answer anyway, and that you would find it correct in the near future. Might you not still consider having the answer amongst your arsenal of testing questions?
Strangely enough the answer to Fermat’s Last Theorem was discovered a year or two later!!!!
I am not telling you that any of this did take place. Just a scenario to contemplate!! One that I obviously had to contemplate.
It is harder than you can imagine to come up with question that will produce a definite hit.
For one thing, however far into the future you perceive them be, it does not mean that the events you cite will have yet happened yet. Perhaps never.
Sit down and try this for yourself. You will see what I mean. It could be that unlike me you will find this easy. I would love to hear how you get on.
Glad you are looking at CHAPTER? 7.
This might open up a whole new ball game for you.
Regards
Gary
Gary,
That is an incredibly complex scenario. I understand what you mean in that it is seemingly impossible to ask a question that could produce a definite hit. It seems as though the only category of question that could be asked is one that is either unanswerable today with our current technology, or one that just hasn’t been answered yet. I suppose once the answer to the question is obtained, one must just wait on it and see if the “future” was correct. Still, as you say, maybe the event never happens. It is not a sure way.
I thought the Fermat theorem was a pretty good question because, hypothetically, one could just sit on the answer and wait until it is solved. But if it isn’t solved, or you don’t find out about it, it isn’t really proof. If you present the answer to someone who has the means of figuring it out, you have them presented them the answer, making it seem as though you solved it. I suppose it I personally were the mathematical genius, and could propose a question that hadn’t been solved, learning the answer and checking it may be enough.
It is incredibly difficult to think of what to ask, if I were to even ask anything. I guess if I were in a position to ask questions, anything at all, I would just ask what I should do.
What I’m still thinking about is, what the wish 2109 asks for, and what the new conversation formula is. The price of the answer is the loss of mind, body, or soul, as they say “let the man who is willing to lose these step forward”. This is the price to pay for learning the answer to Fermat’s theorem/proof they are from the future? At that point, the question would seem meaningless, as to lose your soul is to lose all.
If I could ask questions at all, maybe I would just ask what to do. They say that our kind are getting their fingers burnt, and they are right. But that Ken and Deb may prevent that, indirectly. It seems to me as though the human race, while we are becoming very technologically complex (relative to us), we are incredibly destructive, as 2109 allude to. I wonder if this could change our trajectory.
Thank you for the replies. I will continue to think about your hypothetical situation and studying the book.
Gary – when you say chapter 7, do you mean the wrongly numbered chapter between chapters 22 and 24? In which Fowlshurt releases Lukas/Thomas? Or the actual chapter 7?
Hi Nick,
Well done. Good reasoning on your part I thought. You seem, like you are really determined to get to the bottom of The Vertical Plane mysteries..
I cant understand why the rest of the thousands who have read this book have not attempted to determine the truth or otherwise of this exceptional out there event. I have only had a handful of contacts regarding this since the book was published.!!
Probably, because it requires a great deal of swallowing in the first instance.. Sometimes/ very occasionally the most way out things do become a reality.
Had you told me about any of today’s technology when I was young, I would have laughed and deemed you a nut case. But, here I am typing away on my computer sending you messages down a wire.
CHAPTER? 7 : Yes It was the fact that there is a print error and the book has got two chapter 7’s.
Is this just an accident? Or an orchestrated accident?
Ponder this:
If 2109 are as powerful as they intimate to be. Then is it not reasonable to assume that, they are capable of bringing about any result that they would wish. If they were from the future then they would know in advance that Ken Webster would write the book.
Do you not think that they would make sure that the written record of these events were as they would wish them to be recorded. Right down to the correct printing.
By the way It was not until many months later, that someone pointed out to me about the chapters.
I then began to look at things in more detail. (but 2109 would have known this too).
CLUE :(This was also my clue to what was going on) What are the first two characters printed on the second chapter 7?
Do you know anything about CHALDEAN NUMEROLOGY.
I can tell you that 2109 do.
They are the only ones to have known that I had studied Chaldean numerology. And how important it is to me.
If I knew that one of the most important aspects about you, was your love for or knowledge of, some very obscure or bizarre interest. Say that you collected frogs. And you knew that I was aware of this also.
Then any time I wished to indicate my hand was in some event, or to let you know that i was about. I would only have to mention frogs, by way of a calling card. Even now long after the event I ………**&%$£”!………….
Hope you find this interesting. I have enjoyed our communication. As I have had time to write during my break from my many activities over the last couple of weeks, but after today it is back to my duties. I am booked to give a talk next Tuesday at LLanasa. So will continue to do my best to answer any questions you may have as I feel this is also one of my duties. But, it will have be much shorter. Perhaps as you get better at reading between the lines I could leave a few out
Please let me know what you discover, you may be helping yourself more than you know number 2.
Best wishes
Gary
Having looked it up, I see both 25 (strength gained through experience, especially with regard to the future) and the sum of the two digits, 7 (faith and spiritual wisdom) are rather appropriate for the book. But having re-read that chapter a few times I am none the wiser!
For those interested in the Thomas Harden/Hawarden who turns up in Little Barrington, you can find a fuller reference to him and his theological knowledge here:
Click to access englishhistorica19londuoft_bw.pdf
See page 111 of the book, or page 121 of the PDF. It is a summary of the Bishop of Gloucester’s visitation in 1551 where each vicar’s knowledge was tested:
Par. ch. of Barington Parva, the king patron. Thos. Arden, vicar.
C [10 Commandments] : Says ten, Exod. xx., but cannot repeat. A [Articles of the Faith] : Repeated, but did not prove from Scripture. LP [Lord’s Prayer] s. [satisfactory] C [communicants] about 40.
Little Barrington doesn’t seem to have any surviving parish registers before 1581 – at least, only that year onwards is mentioned on genealogical reference sites.
There’s also a reference to a Hawarden rather than Arden here:
http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/DisplayAppointment.jsp?CDBAppRedID=289258
He seems to have vacated the living by 1554, but the reason why is not clear:
http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/DisplayVacancy.jsp?CDBAppRedID=171926
There is probably more that could be found by a bit of digging in the Gloucester Record Office. As for the Thomas Hawarden at Brasenose, here is his matriculation record:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/alumni-oxon/1500-1714/pp652-678
Hawarden, Thomas (Harden) fellow of Brasenose Coll., B.A. 12 Dec., 1530, M.A. 17 March, 1534-5; possibly a student of Gray’s Inn 1528, and one of these names vicar of Barrington, co. Gloucester, 1551. See Foster’s Index Eccl. & Gutch, ii. 60.
Page 8 here – https://ia800200.us.archive.org/14/items/cu31924029785452/cu31924029785452.pdf – has the reference to Thomas Hawerden going to Gray’s Inn in 1528. This seems unlikely to me though – my understanding is one would attend the inns of court after a spell, even brief, at university, and that it would be unusual to do it the other way round.
Hi Nick,
Thanks for the message.
You have certainly done some digging. Thanks also for the info.
Alas, there was little depth to what I was trying to show you.
As you are not able to test 2109 yourself directly to see if they are what they intimate to be. I am trying to give you a chance to see some proof another way.
I wanted you to discover for yourself (just as I have) just how much 2109 were able to adjust/bring about/ modify events over a great period of time.
It would seem that it was no accident that I was to come into contact with them eventually. I believe that this event was destined from the very moment I was born. Or even before.
They have left me in no doubt. I am sure that you will eventually come to the same conclusion.
From the moment I first saw the book I had wondered why ken picked “The Vertical Plane” as the title. I now know that he was subconsciously led to it.
The number 7 is my numerology calling card. Have another look at the title.
Regards
GARY MALCOLM ROWE
Born 1942
4/6/42
Tel: 331684
While I do not have a copy of the book, this is sounding more and more like Gary is alluding to the significance of numerology in the role of the name “2109”. Can’t help but notice (after reading this – http://eminekarakaya.blogspot.ca/2015/01/chaldean-numerology-new-and-improved.html) that 2109 could possibly imply a very long string of text to create that large number? I could be interpreting this all wrong however.
What I’d love to know is, Nick, how the heck did you manage to get a copy of the book? I only wish I knew if it were even possible to get a copy, considering… This story has been in the back of my mind for months now despite trying to get over it……
I got my copy second-hand, I think from a seller in Amazon Marketplace. I don’t remember paying over the odds for it so I guess I was just lucky in getting in there before demand for it shot up. Sorry, I know that isn’t a particularly helpful answer…
Hi… I’m hoping Gary will see this too. I met a man who claims to have also investigated at Dodleston and he asked 2109 a question. And they answered. And he told me the answer. He asked them the truth about an event from the past that was believed to have been covered up. 2109 knew the truth. When the man tried to publish the truth he got into trouble with the government and it was covered up again. But now that truth is leaking out. Do you know anything about this Gary? Was it maybe you I spoke to (on the Isle of Man?) I’m trying to find out if I really met someone who spoke to 2109 (he didn’t call them that) or if I’ve been hoaxed. Hiding a secret in a hoax seems quite clever! I’d be interested in any views.
Sorry I do not know anything about the event you refer to. Best wishes Gary 7
Sent from Mail for Windows
Hi Gary.
Thanks for all your information and comments here. I love a good mystery and I’ve always had ‘certain suspicions’ about the nature of time (and subsequently space). This was spurred by a reading of J.W. Dunne’s ‘An Experiment With Time’, which I recommend for anyone interested in ‘The Vertical Plane’.
I am very interested in the request from 2109 to put an ‘Edword Chip’ into your TRS80. At first, I thought it was bizarre that a word processor would have it’s own associated chip, but then I found this:
https://archive.org/details/AcornUser022-May84
…an issue of an Acorn user magazine (the company that makes the BBC microcomputer), which does indeed mention that,
“Edword comes with the most thorough documentation I have ever seen: even installation runs to four pages. There is really no excuse for fitting the chip incorrectly.”
So yeah, there really was an Edword chip. Edword was created by Clwyd Technics. In chapter 7 of ‘The Vertical Plane’, Ken Webster talks about Clwyd and how it ‘has no identity’ and was a ‘county concocted out of the local authority reshuffles of the 1970s’. So here was this software made up the road from Ken’s cottage. Now I assumed that modems were pretty-much non-existent in 1984, or at least very rare. My family had one in 1986 and that was an anomaly where I grew up. But this same issue of Acorn User that mentions the Edword chip, also makes multiple mentions of modems that are available for sale with the BBC and the skeptic in me has this niggling feeling…
Regardless, this doesn’t explain the poltergeist activity AT ALL and the computer was thoroughly examined, so… I dunno.
Also, I haven’t finished reading the book so maybe I should stop getting overexcited. I can’t find out what became of Clwyd Technics or its employees. Do you know, Gary? Or can anyone else find any information? All I know is that they were quite advanced, offering robotics kits with built-in motion-sensing and obstacle-avoidance. They were very expensive for their time.
This is fascinating stuff. I wish everyone the best in their detective hunt. However, if 2109 is correct about what they say, that ‘price to pay’ would be very high in deed. If one were to have a clear realisation of the nature of time (and subsequently, space too), as hinted at by J.W. Dunne…. I dread to think.
—————————
Am I right off the track, Gary?
Hi Anne,
Thanks for the contact..
Double thanks for the info about the company behind Edword etc.
I had no reason to investigate this aspect as Edword was already installed in the Dodleston computer, and I was not about to further complicate my investigations by installing it in my own computer. This said, I have no idea if that would even have been possible.
At no time did I ever see a modem. I accept that they may have been available, but at that time would have been a very rare item. I had, at that point, never heard of such a thing. Or had any use for one.
I thought the equipment I was using was state of the art at the time. After all my simple computer and associated ribbon printer alone cost over a thousand pondsin 1980. The interface equipment that allowed me to operate my automatic survey equipment by the computer was designed for me privately by a world expert on communications at a leading technology company.
Had it not been home built I suspect that it would have cost another thousand.
i must point out here that I am not a rich person. I have never received any grants or financial help towards my work. I never charged anyone for the countless hours of research that I did for people. All my life I have either made my own equipment or worked giving talks etc to raise money for my research.
But I still managed to have the very best resources.
I am certain that no modem was involved in the messages.
Equally certain that the computer could not be affected by any external sources.or manipulated in any way. without me knowing it.
Heaven knows how messages were read inside sealed envelopes.by 2109.
When there was no way that they could be opened without me knowing.
But then, we don’t know everything. If we did I would be out of subjects to investigate.
Things that seemed impossible just a while back are every day items now..
I hope this helps.
Best wishes
Gary
Thanks for your response Gary. I’m just trying to eliminate any possibilities of technological meddling – but I think you already thoroughly did that! I believe there is weirdness afoot that requires me to keep a totally open mind. I’m going to continue trying to find out anything about Clwyd Technics and I’ll let this page know how I go.
I’m so glad that you found this page. Your responses are highly appreciated, as are everyone’s contributions here. I got lost down a very rewarding research hole following Nick’s leads (Thanks Nick).
Cheers all.
Gary,
Do you believe 2109 were humans? The excerpts I’ve read of some of their messages, to me they seem inhuman.
And who was the person “one” who gave Tomas that book when he materialized in the green light?
Would you be willing to photo copy every page of the book and E-mail it to me? I find this book fascinating but in the country i’m in, not one single store or library has a single copy, so frustrating. I could send some money through paypal or something for your trouble?
I think I know where Tomas’s book is concealed, too.
“I think I know where Tomas’s book is concealed, too”
Okay you can’t just leave that one hanging!
(More widely just to say how pleased I am that this blog, which has been somewhat dormant in terms of me posting of late, has been a hub for discussing this book. Please do keep the conversation going).
Hi Owen,
Interesting questions, Unfortunately I am not able to talk about 2109. Sorry.
I know how hard it is to get a copy of this book. I get requests about it often.
I am also not able to copy the book for you. It is totally illegal to make copies from books as they are protected by copyright.
I suggest that you contact one of the people on this site who have got a copy and offer to hire his copy. if you offered a substantial deposit it might tempt someone to start hiring out.
So sorry I can’t be of more help. Keep trying it will be worth it in the end.
Regards Gary
Don’t be sorry, I understand. Was just looking for more clues.
Thanks for replying 😉
Gary, I’ve been trying to contact Ken Webster, and also trying to contact you via Facebook. Fortunately, I see you’ve been replying to comments on this blog fairly recently, so I hope you see this message. In one of your comments I see you say a film is potentially being made. I am a filmmaker and have desperately been trying to contact Ken to talk with him about making a documentary on the events. I would greatly appreciate your help, and of course would love to interview you as part of the film should it ever come to fruition.
Hi Matt,
Just read your comments.(12/10/2017)
Sorry, I am afraid that I can be of little help in putting you in touch with Ken Webster as I have had no contact with him since The events in the book.
I have no idea where he now lives.If you should find out, perhaps you would be kind enough to let me know.
However, I am more than happy to be of assistance to anyone regarding my own involvement in the case. Should you require any help, or have any questions with that, just ask..
Best wishes
Gary M. Rowe
(Investigator in the vertical Plane Book)
dandare@uwclub.net
Gary, five years later from this thread and I’ve just finished reading the book. Having read through your comments on this thread I realize you won’t, or I suspect, can’t, provide illumination on 2109. But I do have two questions you might be able to answer. 1. Is there any numerological significance to the other case mentioned in postscript of the book about a similar situation where the person involved was contacted by ‘’2105’’ rather than ‘’2109’’? 2. Knowing what you know about 2109 are you hopeful or frightened about them and their significance?
For anyone still following this thread, or chancing upon in in the future: I’ve found the Carol Vorderman documentary! Or at least, an episode of it with part of Webster and Harden’s story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgS7HVv8dS0 (from around 16:30 onwards)
The “Strange but true?” series covered the story in two separate episodes but like all TV treatments of the unusual made a complete mess of it.
They failed to mention the most important half of the story- the communication with 2109 which is what it was really all about.
Gary Rowe June 2016
Hi Gary,
I’ve just stumbled across this fascinating story via the Mysteries Universer Podcast. As a film-maker I’d love to make a proper documentary about this, before a lot of the people involved aren’t around to put forward their side of the story. Would you think this is possible?
Tim Leavy.
Gary, can you tell us what type of equipment you used to communicate with 2109? Do you still stay in touch with them and is it possible for a common citizen like myself to contact 2109? Can we use modern day computers? Thank you very much.
Hi Damion,
Despite having my own computer on site and a plethera of other equipment available. I did not use any of my equipment to contact 2109. They, used the “BBC Micro” that was at the cottage.. It would seem that they were able put messages directly onto the computer, despite the computer having been investigated by the manufacturer and connected through a mains filter/isolater and, on one occasion even inside a Faraday shielded box and no other connection to telephone lines etc. They (2109) told me that they would prefer to contact me through my own computer,”a Tandy TRS 80 level two” with printer if I would fit it with an “Edword” chip. at my own home.I declined as I did not want contact at my home. Also it was much easier for me to control my investigation in the cottage.
I learnt very early on, not to underestimate the capabilities of 2109. They are awesome.
If they choose to contact you they will. You wont need any special equipment. You could of course request to be contacted. But I would not recommend it. It would come at a price.
I hope this has answered your question.
Best wishes.
Gary
To Gary Rowe,
I’m a 24 year old artist and writer, and before I was born my mum bough a copy of the book, and I first read it when I was a little girl.
I’ve only sold magazine articles and short stories so far but I’m going to work hard to get novels published and be as good as my family members, as I’m related to a couple of successful writers!
I’d live to write a play, but I wish it could be a play that tells the story that the people involved want told, exactly as they prefer it.
As a writer I’m interested in using spiritual philosophy, and want to use it in a way that other fiction writers don’t tend to. For example I’m writing a novel set in the near future, and it is not paranormal at all, it is a crime novel set firmly in the ‘real world’. However some characters can see auras and past lives are mentioned in passing as part of people’s motivations for doing things, these things are just mentioned occasionally as if they were part of the natural world.
So you see why I might find this subject interesting. I’m not yet at a stage in my life where I’m able to do this project, but perhaps in a couple of years, and I was hoping I might be able to contact you again, close the time?
I don’t know if the things I use in my fiction really exist, but even if they do not exist I think they are interesting.
If past lives were real one could look for Lucas in the present day and undergo past life regression and simply ask where the book was. Or perhaps get him to dictate his version of events, and create a book. That book would have to be sold as fiction but it could be a brilliant and fascinating science fiction story.
That’s very fanciful but it would be fun to look for that person. I’m sure there are other ways to look for the book, and to write new material about the search for the book. A creative project even if the book was never found.
Hi Alice,
I wish you every success with your writing.
Your ideas seem very good. I am astonished that someone has not already written a book using the Vertical Plane as a starting vehicle. Obviously it must be original and not directly connected. I only wish that I was free to write my version of the events. It is annoying to think that i am sitting on a an easy fame and fortune but will never be able to realise it. Especially as I am not a wealthy person. But, there, money is not everything. How does that old song go ” I have diamonds in the sky, and gold in the midday sun”. It is better to be lucky than rich and I am very. very lucky.
My numerological number seven post code has today just won me £40 on the post code lottery. Just in time to help with the car insurance which is due on my Lambogini Countash.
If you think that I in any way might be able to help you with your career please feel free to ask and I will do my best.
Best wishes for now.
Gary
Hi Gary,
I commented below, as I’m interested in the search for the book. I just thought I would comment here too in case you missed the other message!
My ideas about finding the book are probably stupid, but even if it was impossible, I reckon I could write a new book about the attempt to search for the book, that might be interesting.
I hope you reply 🙂
Don’t be sorry, I understand. Was just looking for more clues.
Thanks for replying.
Dear Mr Rowe,
I have sent you a private email regarding this thread of comments.
Best wishes,
Karl
http://www.psychicbookclub.com/
The link above is dead, BUT… Here is a video showing both parts 1 and 2 of the documentary stitched together: https://youtu.be/k8qt85aKuOU
Many thanks. I really appreciate your help.
Gary
[…] Ghost in the machine […]
I’m here because of Mysterious Universe! Great account!
Same here, I can’t get over this story
It is a great story, isn’t it? My inner 15-year old really wants it to be true…
I turned Mysterious Universe on before I went to bed, then I tried to drift off to steep but guess what…..I was awake for a long time that night. If this isn’t true it is a great sci-fi story. Sounds like a screen play ready to go.Tim Leavy, take a crack at it, then advertise it well. I would love to see it! D. Wilck
Hmmm… and now the video has been taken down. I think interest is going to balloon after the MU podcast. I got my second-hand copy though… and it was not cheap. But considerably cheaper than the £500 copy someone’s trying to hawk. This is a rabbit-hole I can’t wait to jump down…
Does anyone know where i can find a copy for sale thats not $599?
Same… We should form a group to share it.
yes please
Where and how should our group convene? I’m not a big fan of Facebook or Google. Any suggestions?
We could use an app called Slack.
Amazon UK has re-released it – will be out 12/14/2017
I ‘bought’ the book and then the seller suddenly removed it and refused to honour the sale. There is a pdf copy out there. ‘Someone I know’ tried to download it. It got to 93% and then the person seeding never allowed the remainder to download. ‘Debbie’, the author’s girlfriend (?) in the book was chatting with some enthusiasts on a forum in paracast.com. I asked her if she’s interested in producing an online kindle version. No response. So many people want it. It is bizarre.
Sir Francis Bacon would be proud…
For Gary Rowe:
I just completed the book. As I have commented elsewhere, I have found several parallels between the Vertical Plane story and my own research.
I am surprised that there is doubt of 2109’s existence by those who have read the book.
A question: why does no one have any questions regarding “1”?
I would welcome a dialogue on your impressions of the larger, sovereign context of the issue.
4556524131383155
37652513515453213
as ever
temporal recon
Personally, I have no questions regarding ‘1’ because I have not read the entire book. I don’t want to be confrontational, but your message seems top be constructed to give yourself the appearance of possessing some exclusive knowledge that the rest of us are not privy to. I am especially referring to the string of numbers at the foot of your post. I realise that your message is only directed at Gary, but this is an open forum.
–
If anyone would like to pitch in on a copy with me, please reply to this message by emailing: gnatgnatgnat@gmail.com. To avoid argument over who ‘owns’ the material book, we could share turns at reading it and then sell the copy back to Amazon (or similar).
Hello Anne!
Perhaps, when you complete the book, questions may arise in your mind regarding “1.” Or perhaps new and different questions might ferment in your mind. The biggest challenge, in my humble estimate, is to have the wherewithal to find the appropriate gems to question and explore this magnum mysterium. The Vertical Plane (with or without the “spiral staircase”) is a fine example of the opportunity for this to happen.
To your non-confrontational point: we ALL have exclusive knowledge that the rest of us are not privy to. We are all products of our own unique life experiences, interests and intellect. I claim no special place on the forum in this regard. The numbers I provided are an obvious nod that is only obvious to those with eyes to see and ears to hear. I have every expectation that, once you obtain a copy of this fine and sovereign work, you will devour it with the totality of the intellect it demands.
454863541525264
As Ever
Temporal Recon
In the book there is reference to a leems, could this be Low Energy Electron Mass Spectroscopy?
I assumed that ‘leems’ was a word invented by Lukas. Or, if not invented, a word common to his time which described the object to the best of his ability. I have no information or knowledge of language of his time that would confirm or refute this theory.
Nyip Syrup, it would seem that the strange words used by Tomas/Thomas to describe the computer-like machine used to communicate with Ken and Deb are accurate renditions of words that would have been quite possibly used by people of that time in the early sixteenth-century to describe something strange and emitting lights (what in our modern terminology would be a computer). In the Middle English lexicon of the time a ‘leme’ means ‘light’ or ‘brightness’. Alternative spellings are ‘leem’ and ‘leam’. The word ‘boyste’ is an alternative Middle English spelling of ‘boist/e’, and was used to describe a case, jar or box. So a ‘box that contained lights’ or a ‘box that shone with lights’ could be construed to be a reasonable accurate description that someone in the sixteenth-century could have used to have described such an artifact as a machine like a computer device (a PC or even an iPhone).
Hello Temporal Recon!
I know that your original comment was from July 2017, but as we seemingly dealing with time-dislocation and similar, it doesn’t really matter I suppose!
I found your comments above quite intriguing and I hesitate to guess that perhaps you are leading others to find a concealed secret or clue.
The number sequences that you have furnished are most interesting. Sadly, I have been unable to date to solve them. I have tried both alphabetical sequential and Chaldean Numerology but to no avail.
As you appear to make an allusion to a book I thought that maybe you have provided an ISBN number. I have tried all permutations of this (even though ISBNs are either 10-or 13-digits).
My mind was drawn in an unexpected way to a short ghost story penned by the famous M.R. James – The Tractate Middoth, the TV programme I had only watched some few weeks ago. In the story, a library employee is searching for a book for a client, where he is shocked into illness through his sighting of an apparition. He stays with a family to recuperate and is told of their failing struggle with a rival heir to a relative’s estate. The tractate supposedly contains a hidden secret will that would supersede an earlier last will. He realises that the clue that the fa,ily has are sequential numbers referring to the book catalogue. When he reurns to work he realises that that partiicular book (a Hebrew Talmudic work, The Tractate Middoth) was the one wanted by the client earlier before he encountered the apparition. As the librarian follows the rival heir with the book he watched in horror as the man dies, The book that the librarian recovers from him contains the amended will granting the family rights to the estate.
As yet I have been unable to ascertain the book that you may be indicating by reference to the number sequences that you gave.
In my comment above regarding M.R.James ‘The Tractate Middoth’ I should have reflected that perhaps also Tomas/Thomas may have similarly hidden his book in ‘plain sight’. Perhaps he did not conceal it within a wall at one of his numerous haunts, but instead deposited it in a library or collection, the numerical catalogue number for such a work may quite possibly be accessed. In this way this particular literary treasure will be recognised for what it is and will not only add evidental confirmation of this particular case, but through its own existence provide startling proof that time can indeed at times be traversed. This would lead on to the nature and origin of the intelligence known as 2109, but also to the intricate and intelligent designs of the ultimate source itself.
Hello again Temporal Recon!
Regarding your number sequences and allusions to a greater truth I have determined that numerologically the first two sequences add up to 61, which is 6 + 1 =7. This is of course of significance to the importance of the number 7 in the story, there being two chapter 7s in the book (in error) – and the number 7 is also the investigator’s Gary Rowe’s ‘calling card’, of great personal significance to him.
The third sequence adds up to 64 = 10 = 1+ 0 =1…the number 1 signifying the Source/God. 64 is also the number of squares on a chess-board and there are also 64 hexagrams in the I-Ching Chinese oracular system. And there are 64 forms of Shiva, the Hindu representation of God. Also, the DNA-RNA “dialogue” — the molecular information system governing life and evolution – it transmitted by 64 (8×8) codons. So your number sequences does hold particular powerful numerological design.
Also computers are based on 64-bits (which considering that communication was being made via a computer makes this doubly interesting).
Now this may lead on to what are known as the ‘octaves of energy’, and if we add up the sum total of the first two sequences (7) with that of the third (1) , we get 8 – the octave of energy, first suggested by Pythagoras.
I can only surmise that you are making an allusion to the complex nature of God and the universe, being all based on mathematics and in perfect symmetry.
You also allude to something called the ‘magnum mysterium’, and as you later refer to people obtaining a copy of the work 9without saying what the work is), I can only suggest that you may be referring to the ‘Mysterium Magnum’, a spiritual work by the Christian mystic, Jacob Boehme, wriitten c.1623. It takes the general form of a mystical interpretation of Genesis, after he had a vision of the whole of Creation and how all was connected to itself. Is this, therefore, the ‘1’ – the Source/God/Creator – that you refer to?
In that sense, i would agree with you that ultimately all is connected to the One – and that we are all emanations from the One Source, including 2109, and that through a study of such spiritual matters we will be able to see the interconnectedness and sacredness of all that is within the universe, and which ultimately all such paths lead to God/The Source/The One.
Hey guys, I just recently listened to the MU special for the book. I am blown away by this and would love to have more information about it. Hahaha good luck finding a book, there isn’t a lot of information on the Web either.. If anyone has any information of how to get ahold of the book or where to find a PDF of it, I would love to read it.
Thanks!
Lukas claimed that one had called it a leems when he first appeared and presented him with the device so I don’t think it was a word of Lukas time or choosing myself.
Ah. My mistake. Thank you for the clarification. I must have missed that detail. Very interesting little gem though, don’t you think?
As Ever
Peter Trinder told us that “Leems Boyste” is Middle English for “box of lights”. If Tomas wrote his book then this is probably a search term to use tracking it down on the internet as it seems peculiar to Tomas’s language according to Peter.
There is a Kindle version of this book coming out end of October for £5.50! The author feels no one should pay the ridiculous sums requested by speculators for his book.
This is the best news i’ve heard about this book since i heard about it.
Hi Debbie – any update on the release date for the kindle? Sorry to pester – I’m just excited. Many of us await with baited breath 🙂
Proof reading is taking longer than expected, mostly due to Tomas’s language, we are getting there though. I’ll post again when it’s up on amazon…
[…] finally, we briefly discuss one of the most fascinating mysteries of the last century: The Dodleston Messages. Yes, we plan on doing a full podcast on this topic some time in the near future… if we could […]
Another reader sent via MU 🙂 Bf had us listen to this podcast the other day because the Beeb features in the story. My old man and I both have BBC Micro computers (the ones my sibs and I would play on growing up in the late 80s and early 90s), and interested in seeing if it’s still possible to attempt contact with 2109.
Question is, does Edword 2 need to be on a ROM cartridge, or will a floppy disk version work?
Also, not sure what the going rate for a Beeb is these day, but the retro gaming magazines a few years ago would have adverts for them secondhand around £40-£50 if anyone’s thinking of finding one themselves 🙂 They can connect to regular old CRT TV sets. Apparently not all had the capability to slot in ROM cartridges so I guess that’s another thing to look out for.
We had no luck with anything other than the Edword ROM for some reason, it seemed to be an important component – communication pretty much stopped via the computer when this was removed. Edword 2 seemed better than Edword 1. It would be interesting to see what you get if you are able to set this up, especially as it’s now affordable to keep a digital camera running all the time on the computer which was not possible in the early 80’s. We can’t afford the disruption to our lives again, as few people can these days, sadly you don’t get to chose when the ‘genie’ goes back in the bottle, so don’t attempt to do this unless your lifestyle permits this, otherwise keep us informed here if you get anything.
Could 2109’s work in canada possibly relate to writing on stone park in canada and the natural portals that open up there to what has been termed the universal highway that exists outside of structure and time that Ardie Sixkiller-Clarke refers to in her book? Could the green color they refer to in book refer to the same color the guys from the eldridge described when one of them would get ‘stuck in the green which sounds like a place outside of structure and ‘time’ as most understand time. and could that be the same place that tesla stumbled into during one of his experiments and the same place that engineer in alabama stumbled into during some work with gravity . the portals like the ones in canada exist in other parts of the world. Also wonder if the math that Bruce Cathie discusses in his books be helpful in better understanding the nature of these portals that give acess to a dimension outside of structure and time.
One wonders if TH’s book is on the oxford campus someplace or with the Queen of England . Just thinking about TH’s refs to oxford and the 2109 quip about the pusscat going to london to visit the queen.
Wonder about the idea that past present and future exist side by side with the past and the future exchanging information to create the present moment and each ‘slice of the future or past being always a fully functional reality of a different temporal frequency. Could the dimension outside of time and structure be the dimension that gives rise to what we call our 3-D reality and could it be acessed using some combination of RF + EM resonance + high voltage static electricity . Wonder if that is the dimension the ETs refer to when trying to expain to human how they travel vast distances –ie the room filled with jelly analogy … they simply step out into the hall where no jelly is and walk down the hall and come into another door at the other end of the room . since humans only exist in the jelly filled room they can only travel slowly …while the ET seems to have done something magical to fucntion outside of time and structure. Wonder if that ‘hallway” is the same travel medium the guy with the green light used to place the computer in 1528 and the same one the Native American person used in the writing on the stone park in canada. One also wonders if the reason the dream thing worked was because the human conciousness can exist outside of time and structure and it is only the microtubules acting as quantum antenna that seem to keep it limited to the 3-d world and something about rem sleep that allows human consiousness to wonder away from those microtubules a bit to sometimes gather info from other places. 😉
WOW,. I am still ploughing through this interesting material. Sounds like you have certainly been doing some wondering, and research. Best wishes with your efforts.
Gary M Rowe 7
Long time ago I got this book from my dear friend living in Dodleston who had know Ken @ Debbie, personally. John visited me in Poland and VP was a special gift for me. My plan was to translate into Polish, but I borrowed it to my best student of English classes and I lost it for ever. Gary, lots of thanks for your replies to people who are fascinated in the subject, like me.
Hi Gary
I saw your earlier post about the chapter 7 that got mixed up and in the version i have of the book the chapters are numbered properly, the person that made the comment said that it was the chapters between 22 and 26 can you maybe clarify which one because you said the first two symbols were important.
i don’t know anything about chaldean numerology but it seems quite odd to me that the number that got mixed up was 7 considering the fact that your year of birth, date of birth and phone number all add up to 7.
also weird is the fact that your name, middle name and last name all add up to 6 6 and 7 respectively, is this what you meant when you alluded to the mix up of chapter 7 being a personal message to you?
was the number 7 sort of being used as a personal nudge to get your attention about something specific in the chapter between 22 and 26?
Great news Debs. I’ll be getting myself a special Christmas present, maybe? Thanks again. I’ve found mention of Tomas in an Oxford publication, but I think Robin Peedell already used the same source. I’ll continue to hunt…
The book is being re-released on the 14th on Amazon.co.uk for about $23 (US) – 16.65£
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/000828833X/ref=od_aui_bia_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Very interesting discussion of this fascinating case. It is great to see Mr Rowe active and discussing the case but I wonder where Mr Webster is now. A rigorous film or documentary is definitely called for. As a general observation, Cheshire is very rich in paranormal lore/events and Alan Garner’s famous Cheshire novel Red Shift also contains a ‘Vertical Plane’ cutting across time and space (though I think it predates Mr Webster’s book by some years). Interesting that Mr Rowe sees a plethora of synchronicities involved in the whole event, including the book and its publication.The messages from 2109 on poltergeists, tachyons and other matters are also fascinating.
Gary Rowe. Just got the book today. Am I right that chapter 19 is important?
youtube.com/watch?v=1WXSjRvOYr4
Thank you Nick for publishing this blog post (which I have only just found from last year!). Clearly, your historical credentials are impeccable with your academic research, which makes your interest and willingness to investigate the issues around ‘The Vertical Plane’ so exceptional (and thank you for the academic research also that have put in and made available on the subject of Thomas Hawarden). There is so much interesting material and comments that people have put on your blog about this subject that I have been avidly studying – so thank you everyone for sharing so much information and ideas! And to have Gary Rowe write here regarding his own personal involvement with the case sharing some ideas regarding the elusive intelligence 2109 is very good indeed. Thank you Gary for sharing and in trying to help others understand more about what was going on. I think we have not heard the last of 2109!
Nick, Is there any chance that you could contact me regarding your own investigations regarding ‘The Vertical Plane’? My email address is ceepotter at yahoo dot co dot uk. I am particularly interested in Thomas Hawarden and tracing his movements (as far as extant historical sources permit) after leaving Dodlestone. You appear to have achieved much in tracing him to the postition of vicar at Little Barrington. I am curious how Thomas would have been accepted within an ecclesiastical position at a time when his apparent devotion to the Pope would have made his bid to hold such an office highly suspect, if not untenable. I would have thought that under the reign of Mary Tudor 1i 1553 he would have received more consideration. Are you able to help clarify this Nick? And through your research you have discovered that by 1554 he seems to have vacated the position. So the trail appears to have gone cold? Are there any more traces of him that you know of? Do you think that his death and place of burial can be discovered? I wonder if he returned to his beloved Oxford?
I first read ‘The Vertical Plane’ around the time it was originally published. I gave my copy away to a friend. When my interest was rekindled last year (out of nowhere it seems) I chose to borrow a copy from my local library as an Inter-Library Loan (so if any one else wants a book that has been out of print that is the step that you need to take). Then out of the blue it has been republished as from December last year (2017)! There seems to be an amazing surge of interest in this book and its amazing story – yet there has been no TV programme or similar that may have acted to rekindle such an interest). I find this most interesting (and I would not be at all surprised if that trans-dimensional intelligence known as 2109 was not somehow behind it). So now we have something of a rolling Zeitgeist that may yet lead to new revelations and new information and, hopefully, new understanding. With mankind and the planet on the precipice of such a nexus of potential catastrophes and yet the spiritual transformation of man is side by side taking place makes me wonder whether we are on a cusp that could take us either way.
I think that the book does justice in its obligations to reduce the possibility or charges of a hoax (either by themselves or others) very well. The actions of the SPR were appalling (but more of the arrogant and prejudiced thoughtless behaviour of the two ‘investigators’ sent in rather than due to the collective integrity of the SPR). Hoax can never be entirely ruled out sadly as the events were never under strict laboratory conditions, but sufficient was done in my view with Gary Rowe (an independent investigator) to reduce many non-paranormal possibilities.
If we are to proceed sensibly and progressively we need to take what we have been given and pursue the matter with a measure of cautious acceptance. So we take the position that a hoax can reasonably be ruled out, so we are left with the stance of what are we dealing with, what is the nature of the paranormal source (ie is it benevolent, malevolvent, is it extraterrestrial, dimensional, from our future, or from a parallel universe?) Are there similar parallels? I think that an interdisciplinary stance helps to approach this subject more clearly as we may have other similar cases of contact from the past.
A film of these events would be intriguing – and long overdue. Such an amazing case like the Dodlestone Communications is, in my view, one of the most profound and important occurrences of a paranormal nature that has occurred. I just hope that Hollywood doesn’t touch it and turn it into some romance across time (‘When the Lights Go Out’ was an exceptionally well-made account of the famous Black Monk of Pontefract case – and that was a British film!).
Hello myne goodly freends!
I’m so pleased to find this site! And it’s fantastic that Gary Rowe and Deb are here too. I have so many questions I want to ask but I’ll save them for another post. Just wanted to say hi to you all. I first read The Vertical Plane around 1996 when I was 20. I found a copy in a charity shop and thought it looked fascinating. I have no idea why but o at Christmas I had a strong g desire to read it again – even though I’d mostly completely forgotten about the subject in the intervening years. It’s weird as when I looked it up I found out it was being reprinted around the same time. It’s great to be able to have the book on Kindle. I’d love to know what Tomas would have made of electronic books! I was always convinced that the events were real. The story has a ring of truth to it that a hoax doesn’t. I can also see no reason why any of the people in the story would want to make it all up. However I found on ‘re reading the book all these years later and being a lot older, that I understood it more. It just went deeper with me the second time. And pondering on 2109, I have some theories about them. I will post my thoughts soon along with some questions for Gary Rowe, if he is willing and able to answer. Just great to be able to discuss the story now with the advent of the internet! I’d live to k ow what Tomas would have thought of that too!
Another point that strikes me as important but overlooked a bit about the story is at the end of the book when Ken says he contacted the SPR but they had no idea who Dave Welch and Nick Sowerby-Johnson were. Anyone else find that disturbing?
A couple of things occur to me about them:
1.) Were they ‘sent by someone/ some other ‘group’ to find out what was going on?
2.) If so – who sent them? Were they possibly from the MOD?
I wonder because they sound a bit like the mysterious ‘men in black who reportedly often show up to question people over alleged UFO/ paranormal ‘incidents.
This would sort of for my theory of 2109 being some sort of alien beings/intelligence….
3.) Were both men somehow part of 2109’s ‘manipulations’ ?
I’d be very interested in Gary Rowe’s opinion on the above. And Deb too – if she is still around and willing to answer.
Hi everyone. Just been to the church at little barrington. I think its our man Thomas. Some of the wall paintings were the sMe as thomas’ reciting test he had in his early years. Very interesting and cool church . Will post more soon. Regards
Hello everyone. Finally got my hands on a copy of the book! Great read so far, very interesting. Will post again after i have finished the book. I’m sure it will spark quite the conversation.
well, if tomas did eventually become a vicar, and taking note of the last sentence of the 2109 verse. Should not rule possiblility that the book is safely in the hands of the Quuen of england’s library or with The Church of england.
Seems reasonable for him to gift the book to the Queen/King who is the head of the Church of England in exchange for a quiet life of a vicar . Would be better than always having to be concerned about the witchcraft charge….just some thoughts.
Does Gary Rowe still read this thread, anyone know? Is there a way to contact him to ask him to come back here to read the messages to him?
One of Gary’s earlier posts included an email address at the bottom, I think. He may be busy at the moment and not have the time to get involved in lengthy posts, though I’m fascinated to read what he has written here. I finished my copy of the VP book a few days ago, having ordered it from Amazon after listening to the MU podcast. Have always been fascinated by time slips, and books concerning this subject and am extremely interested in all aspects of this story.
Hi Gary, if you read this I hope it finds you well. I have not seen you for many years now.
Strangely the last few days I have felt compelled to read / follow certain twitter users and through various links and other stories unrelated to VP have found myself here. Also I have felt compelled to read my copy of VP since last week before finding this thread. I have had my cherished book for around 20 odd years now I think, which was signed by KW and your good self and will be safe in my bookcase forever. But this week I will read it again, even more closely than the times I have read it already and also follow the links given by Nick. I hope to visit Little Barrington in the not too distant future too. Love to Chris
Hi Carole90842,
We are both well. Hope all is well with you. Please feel free to contact me by dandare@uwclub. net. Or by land phone.
Great to hear from you again, sorry for long delay in answering.
Gary Rowe
NUMBER 7: Gary, here is an excerpt from the Google map of Dodleston: “Dodleston is a village and civil parish in the unitary authority of Cheshire West and Chester and the ceremonial county of Cheshire, situated on the border between England and Wales. At the 2001 census, the population of Dodleston was 777, …”
WOW, Yet another reminder of the astonishing ability that some people have.
Thank you very much for this info
GARY
Dear Mr Rowe, I’m glad you are still reading this blog and replying. I hope if you have the time, you will come back and continue to answer questions. Your input is greatly appreciated. I first read the book in the 90s, when I was 18. I found a used copy at a used book fair by chance and still have it. I felt urged to read it again last year for some reason. I found this blog and posted some comments..Then I forgot about it again, being busy with life I guess. Today I had the strangest experience. I really was not thinking about the book or anything connected with it but was just on the train coming home from a long day and the thought of 2109 just popped in my head. I don’t know why now again but I just kept thinking about ‘them’ all evening and then other ideas were coming into my mind. I realised that now, in 2019, we stand 90 years exactly apart from them and I keep feeling that 2019 is or will be significant to 2109 and the whole story in some way. I don’t know why, or where these feelings are coming from, but I just got a flood of impressions and thoughts about this today. Again, no idea why today. I haven’t even thought about the book in nearly 2 years…
Hi, Highpriestess,2017
You should always trust your instincts.
Some times this is the only way you can be contacted.
I am not able to talk about this subject at present as a lot is happening and I am up to my neck in it.
Best wishes
Gary M Rowe
Hello Gary,
In the vertical plane, Ken mentioned that you had some ideas which you were enthusiastic about, and he also mentioned esotericism and the occult. This has me very intrigued and i would really like to know your ideas?
In one of debbies “dreams”( maybe travels in the subtle world) thomas gave her a book which was written in Latin and had the hermetic cadeceus on the front cover. I think Its possible Thomas was a student of hermeticism/alchemy? One of the golden rules of hermeticism is Silence, maybe tom knew more than he let on.
Anyway i am keen to read about your ideas. I am very open minded.
I hope to hear back from you
Thanks.
At the time of this incident I was working.for M&S Financial Services which was being overseen by the Royal Bank of Scotland. Both based in Chester. As an “employee” we would receive the RBS monthly business paper. Mostly full of boring content but I do remember an article on this subject and a photo showing Mr Webster and his girlfriend. He was working as an IT contractor for RBS. I’ve always been aware of this story (I lived very close by) but this is the first ever time I’ve heard of 2109.
Here is a thought…
Thomas did write the book .
No one will ever find that book …not in this time line .
The info they gave him from 1985 that he used to write the book created a another time line that included that information ….and his ‘modified’ future and the book hidden at Oxford . Thomas’s book is indeed somewhere on the Oxford campus , but is an Oxford campus that resides in a different time-line than the one we currently exist in.
I think from our perspective …the book will never be found…
Fascinating idea! You could well be right! Although that would be disappointing…. I hold out hope the book will someday be discovered in this timeline, even if not in my lifetime! I’m in my early 40s, so maybe there’s still time….I’m a historian based in London, and I’m in academia so could probably get access to some of the academic libraries in Oxford. I’ve pondered about going there and trying to search for it but seems like it would be a long shot. Although…I’ve also wondered whether the book would still be in Oxford at all, if it does exist in this timeline. Perhaps it got moved around and ended up in London or somewhere else.
Hi highpriestess2017, you have made numerous well-founded and interesting comments over the months regarding this intriguing and perplexing case. Like you, I have been both baffled and yet fascinated by the case. We must always strive to be objective and cautious in accepting bizarre claims and occurrences that are beyond our normal perception of reality and paradigms, but I am persuaded that within reasonable doubt neither Ken or Deb participated in a fraudulent exercise. I also respect the opinions and claims of Gary Rowe and believe that he experienced the phenomenon (2109) to a degree that convinced him that one of the intelligences involved in the communications was not only genuine, but a powerful source of informational intelligence. Anecdotal evidence, whilst not as convincing as more objective evidence, can be powerful in their testimonies and import also.
As a historian, highpriestess2017, I wonder if you have been able to investigate the academic resources that are potentially available to you in the hope of procuring additional information and leads about Thomas and his book? I appreciate that since last year we have experienced the Covid pandemic lockdown, but I wonder whether before this event occurred whether you were able to garner any leads?
Recently, I came across a copy of Jack Finney’s novel ‘Time and Time Again (1970), and note the similarities between some parts, such as where the narrator – who travels in the past – surmises about the possibility of going to the past (1882) and taking with him the manuscript (the book itself that is the subject), and concealing it within a cache of religious texts in the New York Public Library, for a friend to find in the future (his own timeline). Although similar to what Lukas describes in the communications at Dodlestone, I am not sugesting that Ken Webster simply duplicated the novel’s premises, only that it is an interesting synchronicity. Please refer to some of my previous posts where I make reference to the conceopt of ‘psychic parallelism’, where reality and fiction/imagination can exist alongside one another, and either can be the precursor to the other, so that sometimes fiction/imagination can simultaneously create a reality – as in synchronicity. History is abound with occurrences where individuals separated by distance and circumstance come up with the same ideas or inventions, or where events in novels seemingly give rise to very similar events later.
So maybe, just maybe, Lukas did hide the book and that he actually hid the book amongst a cache of religious tracts in Oxford.
I would very much like to visit both Oxford and London library repositories after this lockdown is over so that we can at least cover as much ground as possible to ensure that an adequate search can be completed. Are you – and any others – up for that? Contact me at my email address as we have time to sort it out ceepotter at yahoo dot co dot uk
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I’ve been doing a bit on digging online, and I found some further mentions of Thomas. This in a wikipedia entry about the history of Brasenose College, which states:
“The first two principals of the college, Matthew Smyth and John Hawarden, successfully navigated the college through the reformation period. The college retained strong Catholic tendencies, and support for the reforms of Henry VIII and Edward VIII was minimal. The Chapel’s Dean, Thomas Hawarden, was opposed to the reforms, and was once called to the King’s Privy Council to answer for his actions. Eventually, though, the continuing reforms were carried through.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Brasenose_College,_Oxford
Here: https://archive.org/stream/brasenosecolleg00bras/brasenosecolleg00bras_djvu.txt
1530
HA WARDEN (Harden), Thomas. Fellow (Founders) ; B.A. 12 Dec.
1530; M.A. 17 Mar. 153$.
And here, where it mentions the incident of not removing the pope’s name and being called before the King to answer for it (page 171-172):
Click to access nbm110b2372691v2.1.pdf
Excellent research, highpriestess2017. Thank you for these links that you have provided. Every piece of evidence is a jigsaw piece being added to the puzzle, and this confirms some things that were published by Ken and Deb.
Hello highpriestess2017,
Are you still interested in pursuing your interest in the events of the book? Your knowledge and academic background in history would make a very good contribution to the research needed to take this case further. If you are still interested and wanting to share ideas and research on the affair please do contact me at my email address ceepotter at yahoo dot co dot uk.
I just found this new podcast on the story from last month.
https://www.darkhistories.com/the-dodleston-messages-ghost-in-the-machine/
I went to Amazon to buy a copy of the book for a friend but the newly printed version has vanished, along with the Kindle version. Anyone know why?! Really disappointing it’s been pulled.
Thanks highpriestess2017, for your continued interest in ‘The Vertical Plane’ and your posts on this blog by Mercurius Politicus. The whole discussion has intrigued me for many years and this blog has continued that fascination – so thank you Mercurius Politicus and all posters! As regards your enquiry, highpriestess2017, I think that the reason why the book is no longer available on Amazon UK is that it is now out of print by the publishers, HarperCollins. I have since written to the publishers to see what the exact reason is, so if I hear I will let you know. All I can see on Amazon are second-hand copies – and that is being charged up to £45…excessive!! I wish that I had a copy to give to you, highpriestess2017, as it must be very frustrating to wnat to give a copy as a gift for your friend.
In the meantime I value your continued researches and reporting back on this blog, your work as a historian has paid off with your documents of Thomas’s former college of Brasenose that you posted here.
I think that a group of us here should rally together and work on a more sustained research project looking at the question on a number of different levels, A visit to Little Barrington would be in order and to Oxford. Both a historical approach and a psychic approach I think are required to approach the subject if we researchers are going to have a chance of understanding the events in their entirety. I appreciate that Gary Rowe is probably very busy but it would be very good if he was able to advise us during any research on this fascinating case. Clearly, the souces that were involved during the Dodlestone case are those which lay beyond our current knowledge of the universe and physics, and that only a perspective from that of quantum physics would be sufficiently advanced to begin to grapple with it.
Hi Clive, and thanks! Only just seen your reply now as hadn’t checked the blog in a while. I’d love to be able to dig more documentary proof up about Tomas. Kind of difficult at the moment with Covid unfortunately. I wonder what 2109 would make of 2020….
I think your idea is a good one though and maybe in future it could be arranged, once this COVID business is all over.
Hi highpriestess2017, I have now received a response from HarperCollins, the publishers, who state, “The above book is now out of print and no longer available to purchase from ourselves. There are no plans to reprint the book.”. So, sadly, that is the end of the line for the current printing of the book, which will only increase the value of existing books and encourage some hucksters to ramp up their prices for it. I note, however, that the title can be purchased as an ebook as per this site: ebooks.com
https://www.ebooks.com/en-uk/book/95923744/the-vertical-plane/webster-ken/?src=feed&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-LPxiv_-6gIVUOh3Ch191QGCEAYYASABEgIXMPD_BwE
Hope that helps,
Clive
Thanks! I found that the ebook is now no longer available but Deb has said it will be reissued soon, so that great.
Hi highpriestess2017, another reprint of the book is in the making with some updated content and with it, a sensibly priced Kindle version out around Christmas. Please don’t pay the silly secondhand amounts currently on Amazon by speculators.
Hello Debs! Thanks so much for taking the time to reply! Updated content? Ooh exciting. That’s excellent news! I’m lucky to have a first edition of the book but I wanted to get some copies for friends and family. Do you have a definite release date yet?
Hello highpriestess2017,
I trust that you were able to obtain a copy of the book, It appears out of print again, however. I have noted that you can access the book from the Internet Archives, a not-for-profit organisation that relies on donations. You can access the book from here for a small donation…https://archive.org/details/the-vertical-plane-ken-webster
I have to mention an interesting synchronicity that occurred yesterday (3 August 2020) after I wrote the above comment. I noticed that the address to which I had to send a DVD that I had sold was ‘Brasenose Gardens’, and not in a location not far from both Oxford and Little Barrington! I had to smile at the bizarre synchronicity (was 2109 having a little laugh at me, I wonder?). The title of the DVD was also intriguing in this respect – ‘Wall Street’ (a film about the shenaningans of Wall Street), but I thought was this a clue to perhaps where Thomas may have hidden the book (or more likely sheath of documents)… inside a wall?
Another curious synchronicity of late (again triggered by my interest in recent posts on this blog) was watching an episode of ‘Tales from the Darkside’ on TV this week, the relevant episode being the 1984 episode by Stephen King called ‘The Word Processor of the Gods’. It was released 25 November 1984 in the USA, so was virtually distributed at the same time as the early paranormal phenomenon at Meadow Cottage, Dodleston (late August/December 1984). It was originally a short story by King published in the January 1983 issue of ‘Playboy’ magazine and collected in King’s 1985 collection ‘The Skeleton Crew’. The protagonist (Bruce Davison) of the TV episode is a writer who finds himself with the titular device, which has the power to make the written word come true – and his reality is changed through this very early and clunky word processor that his late nephew had constructed for him. The episode from ‘Tales of the Darkside’ is borrowed from an earlier ‘Twlight Zone’ episode called ‘A World of His Own’, by Richard Matheson, and first aired in the USA on July 1, 1960. In this instance, the protagonist (Keenan Wynn) has access to a dictation machine that can create any character that he wants by speaking into it. and then subsequently make them disappear by throwing the tape into the fire.I am not suggsting that Ken Webster and Debbie Oakes had heard of the story, or somehow accessed the episodes. I am pointing out the remarkable synchronicity involved, something that has been reported in paranormal occurrences. Jenny Randles has coined the term ‘psychic parallelism’ to describe occurrences where paranormal phenomena arises at the same time as something that has arisen in the fictional world (be that a fictional book, TV series, film). Instances have occurred such as the publication of a novel about an unsinkable liner – before the Titanic was actually built, down to a similar name, construction, dimensions. And with the recent events of 9/11 there were multiude instances of films (such as ‘Back to the Future), cartoons, TV episodes, and adverts that all included instances of scenarios related to the events of 9/11. Outside of both time and space, I believe that the mind can sometimes access information (particularly if emotionally-laden) and will either tap into its creative part and perhaps result in a work of fiction, or it will manifest in physical reality. Synchronicity is how magic works, operating through the mechanisms of coincidence to create manifestations and often resulting in links that serve to connect disparate but related ocurrences. I believe that what happened at Meadow Cottage at that time was a manifestation of intelligently-controlled energies that was able to have an effect on those around it, and that the event and energies conjoined with it also created synchronicities around it, like a wave rippling through time, to inspire similar ideas in others – only with them it was through the medium of creative writing and entertainment stories. With Ken Webster and Debbie Oakes the whole scenario took on a physical experience with them as both observers and interactive players. The wave of synchronicity also brought in Gary Rowe, a seasoned UFO researcher, who connected with the manifestations on a personal level through information and synchronicities that he experienced. As more individuals connect with the case and its remarkable story more synchronicities will no doubt manifest themselves as, ultimately, consciousness and matter are one and interchangeable.
I wasn’t aware of that story but I’ll look into it…would be interested to see it. As you mention synchronicity, it’s very strange that you mention the actor is Keenan Wynn. I was just watching him in the Dallas series the other day! He played Digger Barnes.
I can’t remember if the exact model Ken and Debbie had was the BBC Acorn computers, but I remember that was the first computer I ever used – we had them at school in the early 80s. I was around 8 years old and thought they were amazing at the time! But it took so long to print out one line of very basic text. Seems hilarious today! 🙂 I’ve always loved computers and gadgets so the story of Lukas/Tomas intrigued me from the start. I’m still trying to figure out 2109….
Hello highpriestess2017,
Thank you for commenting on my earlier item regarding synchronicties involving ‘The Vertical Plane’ book and case. I had to smile when I read your own synchronicity involving the actor, Keenan Wynn, who played a character in ‘The Twlight Zone’ episode whereby a machine is able to transform reality just by putting in information. Thank you for that snippet where you watched this actor the previous day!
The exact model of Ken and Deb’s computer was – and I stand corrected on this if it is incorrect – was a BBC B 32K Acorn DFS. You can still purchase these machines on eBay!
I remember the early computers too, like the Commodore 64 and the Spectrum ZX. I trust that Tomas had more success with his version of a computer than I did!
As regards the software word processing, Edword, here is a link to the Centre for Computing History at Cambridge where they have a copy of the word processsing package that was used
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/34976/EDWORD%202/
Hi everyone, I’m a retired police officer and I have been researching this subject for well over a decade now.
There is so much more to this story than what most people are aware of, including a number of other contacts that have been made by 2105 & 2109 providing further information and a completely new entity that has entered the scene also.
An American company, Sentinel pictures had plans in motion to turn this story into a film back in 2017, however Covid may well have delayed this.
I;m currently working alongside a number of high profile individuals to put all the information I have uncovered together.
I also plan to to be this case before a a team of expert remote viewers to obtain further clarity & if possible, to over Lucas’s book.
Sadly I have tried to speak to Gary on several occasions, but as yet, he has not replied to my messages which is a great shame as I feel Gary would find the new material fascinating.
I would also like to contact Debbie Oakes directly if she is willing or able to discuss the matter with subject to restrictions that may have been imposed by the Sentinel films, if indeed the film project is still going ahead,
I hope to update those who are still interested in this fascinating case in the near future, because there really is much more to share.
Regards
V.P
Another case of synchronicity! Interesting… remote viewing was widely used by the US government during the Cold War to spy on the Soviet Union. It could perhaps help in tracking Tomas’ book down.
Hi highpriestess2017,
Thanks for the response above.I am glad to hear that you also agree that Remote Viewing (RV), a form of updated and controlled clairvoyance, could be used to determine the location of Tomas’s manuscript. RV is very much a learned process but there are a number of well-trained and experienced practitioners of this technique across the world. I am sure that RV woud be a useful tool in helping to possibly locate the present day location of the manuscript (if it still exists that is). Otherwise, we have exceedingly very little to go on, though Oxford and Little Barrington are the likeliest locations to examine.
Hi highpriestess2017, I am on the case as it happens, checking out the use of Remote Viewers and seeing if an attempt can be made to this resolution.Also, the potential use of dowsing and magickal practices in order to assist in providing alternate methods of divination and remote sensing.
Welcome V.P., I am extremely pleased to hear from you and your own personal involvment in the mystery. I am sure that you have done much work on this subject and your findings and opinions will be highly valued. When you say that you have been researching this subject for over a decade I am assuming that you are referring to the Dodlestone messages and events per se, or does that also include similar phenomenon like the Scole Experiment and other forms of ITC?
Your background and training as a retired police officer is clearly of immense value here! I was always of the opinion that there were similar cases out there and other contacts made by sources as 2109; your posting has confirmed this and I am quite excited by the implications involved.
As regards a potential movie deal by an American company, this is tremendously exciting! However, I have see too many potential cases attract movie interest over the years, only to see them disappear without trace in some kind of a movie ‘Bermuda Triangle’ lol. Maybe this possibility will bear fruit, let us hope so!
I am sure that Gary Rowe has his own reasons why he has yet to respond, but perhaps now he will choose to do so. I note that Debbie has been involved in the past with this thread on this site (around October 2017 if you scroll back, V.P.), so maybe she will be as enthused as I am with this new development.
As regards Remote Viewing (RV) this is an area of great interest to me and I was independently determining the possibility of engaging in RV for this very purpose! This is certainly a promising field of enquiry, V.P.
I appreciate that some of what you have uncovered may be private or is being kept back from public consumption, at least for the time being, but I would be very much interested in knowing more, participating further with you, or just discussing more. My email, should you wish to communicate, is ceepotter at yahoo dot co dot co uk. Thanks again V.P. for you sharing some of your exciting information.
I came here after listening to the Astonishing Legends podcase episode on The Vertical Plane. (I highly recommend checking out the podcast – it’s so engaging.) I am desperate to get my hands on a copy of the book to read it for myself but the $500 – $800 price tag is too much. Hoping the re-release, be it Kindle or print, comes soon.
The comments in this thread are just as fascinating as the story itself.
I am located in America but I wish I was in the UK so I could visit the places mentioned to look for Tomas/Lukas’s book. What do we know about the book? Did Tomas give a title? I know he said it would be written in Latin.
Does anyone know if the church at Little Barrington has a library or book collection? Perhaps Tomas’s book could be there?
I suppose it could also be at Brasenose College at Oxford since Tomas indicated he was headed there to see if they would have him back. Evidently he ended up at the church in Little Barrington sometime after that. I know that my own university here in the US, which is only around two hundred years old, has a section in the library of very old books that they have kept all this time, and I can only imagine just how much is tucked away and possibly even forgotten at Oxford as it’s pretty much ancient.
Or… even, Jesus College? I am not sure if I am looking at the right “Jesus College” but upon googling, it says it was established in 1496 which means it did in fact exist during Tomas’s time? It’s hard to know all the details without having the book and then on top of that not knowing what information was not filtered/altered by the beings of 2109, allegedly.
Are there any historical societies in Dodleston that might have some old Tudor era books tucked away?
Also, I would love to know if the current residents of Meadow Cottage experienced anything weird? It seems like there was a perfect paranormal soup going on – an old house with centuries of history, sandstone (some claim that certain minerals and rocks can retain information and/or energy, i.e. the stone tape theory), ley lines (at least that was claimed in the BBC special), and a young woman being present (teenagers/young women in particular often being linked to paranormal or poltergeist incidents). It’s almost like it all came together to open up a portal… a portal that perhaps allowed those of 2109 to meddle with things.
What do we think 2109’s motivations were? Are they truly body-less entities? Are they experimenting with time or interdimensional travel or inter-temporal communication? Part of me wonders if they are humans from the future testing out time travel and seeing how people from different times will handle encountering beings from other time periods. Maybe they are testing how their interference with affect the course of history, like a butterfly effect. Or are they some type of trickster entity just messing with people?
Not sure how legitimate it is, but there is a scanned version of the book currently available on the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/the-vertical-plane-ken-webster/mode/2up
Hi Nick, you’ve done a great service in providing that link to a scanned copy of the book on the internet. I have a copy of the book but because the book is currently out of print and there is a significant amount of interest in the story I am sure that those who want to read about can now do so of they look here. Cheers for that Nick!
Hi Krystle, thanks for keeping this thread alive with your recent comment. Maybe other people who listened to the podcast will similarly be just as curious as you have been and will start to looking deeper.
It sure would be good to have someone with an active interest in the mystery. I hope that individuals such as myself who live in the UK will be able to salvage some serious research into this case. I am sure that you would if you were in the UK too.
Information about the book that Tomas allegedly wrote is limited. Yes, it would have been written in Latin. The church at Little Barrington in Oxfordshire is certainly the principle port of call, although the book – if it existed in the first account – may have been passed on and sold to an archive or private collector. I think that Oxford University where Tomas was associated with would be the likeliest location for the repository of such a book. It may be amongst a host of books and manuscripts, perhaps lying in some archives at Oxford!
You suggestion of the possibility of local historical societies, within Cheshire, who might possess the book is a good one.
Again, the current situation with regards to Meadow Cottage in Dodlestone really needs to be followed up. Assuming that the current occupants are open to it, of course, this aspect must be part of any full investigation, just to know that the activities at the cottage are no longer occurring is useful information.
I would like to get together another individual, or small group, who would work together on this case and perhaps begin investigating potential locations where such a manuscript could have been hidden or stored. Is there anyone out there who wishes to collaborate and share ideas and resources?
You are right Krystle in that the overriding intelligence – 2109 – may have manipulated information and altered it. Whether we in 2021 would be allowed to find the supposed manuscript, or be helped by them, is a possibility that we must consider.
Your suggestions about the nature and motivation of 2019 are all valid. 2109 has recurred within history, after these events at Dodleston, and I have traced them to at least to around 1997. Whether they are human time-travellers from the year 2109, or a non-human ‘alien’ or ultra-terrestial intelligence I do not know. The evidence from the book ‘The Vertical Plane’ and other instances where they have made their mark suggests a time- experiment that is being engineered by individuals from the future. However, the experiences of individuals such as Gary Rowe may indicate that we we are dealing with a different and perhaps more pervasive intelligence than that.
Brasenose College is next to the Sheldonian Theatre. In front of the theatre there 17 statues called the “Emperor Heads” or the “Oxford Heads”. Across the street is The White Horse pub, a bookstore, and a library.
“This tiny pub is squeezed between Blackwell’s main shop and its newer small shop to the west. The building dates from the sixteenth century, although its stuccoed timber-framed fronting probably dates from the eighteenth. ”
~ 52 Broad Street, Oxford
Previous name was the “Mermaid”.
That’s my guess, based on what is below.
“One day you will all sit down at my table for wine and meat by the river in Oxford where we shall read each other’s books and laugh and we shall speak of truth and good men, watching Oxford change together for evermore. In your time my book is old but I shall not go to my God until it is written then we will all be truly embraced. My love to you all. I shall await you in Oxford. Tomas Harden”
For anyone here still interested, the Astonishing Legends podcast just finished a two-parter on the book.
Kerrie King…Thank you for the information on Astonishing Legends podcast about the amazing events that happened at Dodlestone. I will check that out.
https://imgur.com/a/f1XLRXD
I’ve been searching all night for a Ken Webster who worked as a teacher in that area where the high school is. There is no record at all. No photos, no one has seen the guy ever. My feeling…..Gary is Ken. And Deb. One person behind all of it, the whole thing was a hoax. Prove me wrong. I’m open for my mind to be changed. But where are these people? Gary is the only one from that time who talks about this and he’s a self professed numerologist, and his phone number was specifically given to Ken? Someone above said Ken was an IT contractor for the royal ban kof Scotland? Could be, could be Gary knew Ken all along and they worked together.
How has no one looked into these peoples backgrounds?
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records
Wow, you’ve cracked the case, lol. Have you ever even read the book?
Also, as to your comment ‘where are these people?’, Debs actually posts on this forum. ‘Prove me wrong ‘ – maybe do some basic research to start with…
[…] Links🔗 Blogs: Mercurius Politicus: https://mercuriuspoliticus.wordpress.com/2010/11/01/ghost-in-the-machine/ Contacting 2109: http://contacting2109.com/vertical-plane-ghost-machine/ Macy Afterlife: […]
Jennifer Burford…I noticed your link above that takes you to the numerology toolbox. I appreciate you doing that as it provides useful information on the numerological aspects of the book, particularly those highlighted by Gary Rowe. As he himself has indicated I do believe that a numerological/occult oriented perspective is likely the key to helping to unravel the events described in the book.
I just finished reading the archived version I stumbled across online. As fascinating as this story is, I wasn’t really keen on spending $500+ for a physical copy! What an amazing account this is!
I am curious if the archived version is intact and unedited. I scanned for the second chapter 7 that Gary and Nick spoke about upthread, but to no avail.
This info that was shared is SO dense and filled with hidden meaning, that I imagine that I am going to read this several more times to really let it sink in. On a whim, I sent a text to “2019” the other day inviting them to connect. However (so far) all I received in return was the error message from my wireless carrier. 🙂 I’ll report
I interacted with what you know of as 2109. I need to get in touch Ken and deliver the message I have for him. If you ever see this Ken, you’re not wrong. I’m glad Debbie was there to relay the messages back to you. Contact me.
How no b…Nick who runs this blog is absolutely right! Your comment suggesting that you have interacted with the intelligence that identifies itself as 2109 is indeed fascinating. In fact, any information that you may have pertaining to such a contact may help serious researchers to understand more about this intelligence and also its involvement in the Dodleston Messages.I have been researching 2109 and have identified its manifestations elsewhere in recent history. I would be very interested to know more about your interactions with 2109, such as was it a spontaneous interaction or a planned one; was it a single event or a series of events; what was the method of your interaction with 2109; can this be repeated? What kind of information did you obtain? If you are not comfortable about sharing such information on a public forum feel free to contact me at my email address using ceepotter at yahoo co dot uk.
Why did you remove my comment?
I haven’t removed anything: I have to approve comments and you posted during the night time in the UK where I live. It should be showing now.
If you are willing to share your experience with 2109 I suspect there are lots of people following this conversation who would be fascinated!
How now b…from what I understand Ken appears to be no longer pursuing the matter with the Dodleston Messages. I get the impression that he after he wrote the book he was happy to leave it behind him and we should obviously respect his decision. His waning interest in 2109 is shown in the later stages of his book when he is approached by German researchers and his distaste in continuing the experiment is evident. As for Debbie she continues an interest in the affair and has occasionally posted comments about it, including this blog (see above). I cannot speak for Nick but it is unlikely that he has contact with Ken. I don’t know if the message that you have for Ken is a personal and private one, though but feel free to share it with others through this blog, or with me privately. I would certainly like to know more because we have to seek to identify the originator of the messages and without a background to the messages that you have received we have no way of knowing whether an impostor entity is utilsing the means of communication to engage with you. The astral reality is full of entities that seek to engage with us and any engagement needs to be done with discernment and testing. If 2109 is behind your communications this would, however, be very significant evidence of 2109’s continued manifestations and as such is potentially important.
Just to confirm I’ve not had any contact with Ken either.
Hi, Clive, Nick and all. Any findings from your research that you feel are useful to add to the book would be gratefully received. I know Ken is updating the book – not the main text, just some additional thoughts and findings at the end (inc.photos not included in the original etc.which modern digital printing can now accommodate better). The aim of re-publishing it is, for the most part, to stop financial speculation on the book, which Ken finds distasteful as well as updating the awful cover! We are just in the final stages of putting it together. It will be available again on Amazon (£17.99) or Kindle (£6.99). It’s also a slightly bigger book and has a new cover – an etching by Rembrandt no less!
Hi Debs, Thank you for your comment and for Nick in allowing this debate to continue on this blog, It is wonderful to know that you as one of the primary witnesses to these events are continuing to take an interest and to engage occasionally in discussion (I respect, of course, Ken’s decisions not to as he has his own personal reasons). It is wonderful to hear Debs that the book is currently being updated to include new information and photos as well as thoughts on the subject. Not only that but, as you both can see, to stop the grotesque greedy speculation operating by some who are using your work to make an excessive profit for themselves. I would very much like to offer a few thoughts and findings of my own – for what they are worth – to be considered by Ken and yourself, and I am sure that a few others will also be interested to offer some of their own. How would you like these thoughts/findings to be delivered to you and Ken, is there a contact email address, or would you prefer to use the comment section of this post on this blog as the medium (subject, of course, to the goodwill of the blog owner, Nick). Thank you all again for allowing open discussion of what is fascinating book as well as very interesting case.
Very happy for the conversation to continue here – I am delighted that my random musings about the book have sparked such an ongoing conversation.
Hi, Not sure how safe it is to give an email on a blog, but would love to here all thoughts and findings? There is a publisher’s email address in the second edition via which you could post your questions to Ken, though I cant guarantee he’ll respond, I think it’s worth a shot for long term fans! Otherwise, we are putting together a website (mammoth task!) with all the additional notes left out of the book and diary that the original publisher scrapped -I suspect there will be a contact in the site als0 if you can wait for the summer on that?
Hiya, you can contact Ken via the publisher’s email info@thedodlestonmessages.com regarding your research?
Hi Debs, Thank you for the notification about Ken’s email address that he has created for further research into the enigma. I will be in touch shortly. Myself and a few others have posted/will be posting research and ideas on a new Facebook page that someone else has created. It may be useful for Ken and yourself (and others, of course) to access the page and check out any new research and vice versa…https://www.facebook.com/groups/351602963651414
Hi Debs,
Thanks for updating us all – this is fantastic news! It’s lovely to hear you are both still around and interested in the case! I re-read the book every year, as the story is so fascinating. As well as the supernatural element, it also brings back memories of life in the UK at the time. I remember those BBC Acorn computers very well – I used to use them at primary school. I was 8 years old in 1984 and when we first got them, we thought they were so exciting, even though now, they seem prehistoric by today’s standards! I fully believe what you both went through and the book always rang true to me. The story of Lukas the dog dying always makes me cry!
I look forward to the update! Do you have a release date yet?
Welcome back highpriestess2017! Yes, indeed, it is a good start to the New Year to see Debs back and the book to be republished. Yes, I also feel that the events in the book ring true. Particularly so as they occurred at the beginning of the mass-proliferation of computers to homes and schools and prior to what we know as the internet. It makes the suggestion of a hoax or fraud so less likely in my opinion.
I have a book by Matthew Manning from 1974 called ‘The Link’ that details his early experiences as the target of poltergeist writings at his Cambridge home and school at Oakham, These writings on the walls were claimed to be from someone in then seventeenth-century onward. These occurrences have similarities with those experienced by Ken and Debs. At one time the communicant even asked if Matthew was from the future! And was annoyed that he was living in his house too! So the Dodleston Messages in my opinion do have a pedigree and did not just occur out of the blue. The only difference is that the messages were communicated via a computer (although written messages were also scrawled on the floor of the cottage in Dodleston).
It would be great to communicate with you also highpriestess2017 and to share ideas in this case, as well as to research as I note that you have a background in academic historical research. Feel free to contact me at ceepotter at yahoo dot co dot uk
Hi, highpriestess2017, great to see you still on the case :o) Yes, the 80’s were pretty special for anyone living at that time. I haven’t own a dog since. Like many who have lost a close pet, it’s pretty heartbreaking and something you never quite get over xx
Hi Debs, great to hear from you and thanks for replying. I agree with you about pets. I lost 2 cats recently who I’d had for many years and it never gets any easier. I just saw that the updated book is out – fantastic! I’ve been busy so not checked this blog in a couple of months. Is there going to be a Kindle version too? I looked but can’t see one. Thanks and can’t wait to read the new edition!
https://insightfulreports.org/automatic-writing-a-poorly-understood-phenomenon-holds-the-key-to-understand-the-mystery-surrounding-ufos-aliens-spirits-and-the-god-behind-abrahamic-religions
https://insightfulreports.org/research-papers/parallels/for-those-who-are-still-searching-the-truth.html
Hi All,
I’ve recently finished the books, read the podcast, and watched the BBC programme and firmly believe this is a hoax. There are too many coincidences that I cannot get past, aside from the obvious unlikliness of this.
I am not completely closed to this though, so am intrigued what convinced people here of the truth behind this?
I can’t come up with a satisfactory explanation though for who is behind the hoax but have some good ideas.
Thanks in advance, looking forward to buying the Kindle version so the true authors can get something for this.
As synchronicity would have it I was actually in the middle of some research into this mystery, and a notification from this blog just popped up in my emails. As serendipity would have it I am indeed curious as to your own personal line of reasoning and evidence that leads you to claim that the case is a hoax. Of course, this is a possibility and I for one have not discounted this explanation. I am merely curious as to how you have arrived at this conclusion.To date, I have yet to identify strong evidence that it is a hoax, but sufficient evidence that hoaxing is unlikely, but perhaps you can enlighten me as to your own findings? By its very nature the case shouts that it is an outrageous hoax by its mere incredible nature. But once you begin to look beneath the surface and conventional conceptions the Dodleston Messages becomes a fascinating case with a lot of anomalies that question our Newtonian concept of reality. There are many examples of ITC (Instrumental Trans-Communication) events that involve a diverse series of devices, including videos, TVs and radio. The events at Dodleston are not quite as unique as the book, or later videos and TV programmes, may suggest. Merely because there are a number of coincidences in something does not immediately indicate a hoax or fraud. Paranormal and occult phenomenon seems to operate within a consciousness environment that appears to operate through non-local causality, or synchronicities. I really appreciate your input here ‘edstuaty’ as all opinions are valuable in their own right, so that knowledge can advance. If you have uncovered evidence that the case is indeed a hoax or fraud I will be very interested to hear more as such claims need to be analysed and evaluated.
Hi, thanks for your prompt message.
Here are the reasons I believe this to be a hoax from the book;
-Debbie needing to be present alone in the house for messages to come through.
-Early on when doing research in Chester the librarian states that someone else had been doing the same research.
-The poor security in the cottage, including a linked loft.
-The people verifying that Debbie was not doing the messages were her mother and her brother.
-The errors that Lukas ‘put’ in the messages relating to Jesus cottage and Kinnerton Hall. It is far fetched that his red herrings would be for buildings that existed soon after, more likely a modern mistake.
-The lack of events when the SPR were present.
I found 2109 an unconvincing character, especially the arguments they had with 1, which happened to be at a frequency the machine could pick up and a language that could be understood in the 1980’s England. 2109 editing Lukas’ messages is an extremely convenient way to explain any factual errors in the messages.
Whilst the BBC documentary was pretty laughable looking back, the language expert made a good point about the verb constructions of Lukas being completely wrong. This is countered by Peter Trinder’s essay at the back of the book; I personally would take the expert’s word on this.
A final coincidence that has not been mentioned is location. Dodleston and Hawarden are either side of the Welsh border, and Gary Rowe’s hometown of Rhyl is nearby. Between Rhyl and Harwarden Clywid Technics was located, who created the EDWORD processor. This means if anyone had the skill to manipulate the system, they were likely nearby.
Due to the length of time involved in the hoax I think Debbie had to be involved. Personally I hope she was; in his own book Ken does not come across as likeable, so this would be a great prank to pull.
Either way, I think this is a great, under appreciated story. I hope when the kindle edition comes our the writers get the rewards they deserve.
Hi edstuaty, There is no problem for me if someone is a true skeptic. What I don’t really have time for is those who believe everything or those who believe nothing – that’s just lazy init?! All we ask is that the reader reads the book fully before coming to their own conclusion …and never forget ‘the black swan’, falsifiability is the best tool a critical thinker can have and without which we’d all still be in lockdown with no vaccine! Best wishes.
Hiya! Just a quick heads up that the The Vertical Plane, Second Edition, is now on Amazon @ £21.01 inc postage. Hopefully this stops the price hike now! https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0955983150/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_9E3EHCGG6X5W6R6KS733
I have ordered a copy of the second edition
Commenting to get updates
Leaving a message here in hopes that Debs (or other directly involved parties) sees it. In the first edition around page 219 (page 219 in my pdf, but pages aren’t numbered in print so unsure!) a “tedious missive” is mentioned but not included in full, which supposedly contains mention of “particles yet to be discovered”. Does anybody have a copy of this communication in full?
[…] 2011 and 2016, Poyntz’s blog grew to become much more lively after he wrote the submit, which he titled, “The Ghost within […]
[…] 2011 and 2016, Poyntz’s blog he became much more active after writing the publication, which he titled “The Ghost in the […]
Just finished reading VP, incredible book, absolutely fascinating and ties into my interests in the John Titor story etc.
Do I think it happened? Irrelevant. Even as a work of fiction and jumping off point for many interesting strands of research it has great value.
Commenting to subscribe to future comments.
[…] and a blog dedicated to “time slips” that discounts Webster’s experiences as a hoax, and an insightful book review. My article below doesn’t dig too deeply into Ken Webster’s experiences (which I’m confident […]
[…] The events at Meadow Cottage in 1985 and 1986 continue to be debated by those with an interest in researching the paranormal. Nick Pontyz, a researcher with a Master’s degree in early modern history, has been fascinated by the story and has written a blog on his investigations into the events. […]
[…] The events at Meadow Cottage in 1985 and 1986 continue to be debated by those with an interest in researching the paranormal. Nick Pontyz, a researcher with a Master’s degree in early modern history, has been fascinated by the story and has written a blog on his investigations into the events. […]
So…..I was doing some research in the National Archives online catalogue and came across this document:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7482703
The document isn’t online, only some details about it – it dates from 1533-1538 and mentions a court case and mention of the plaintiff being a brother of someone called ‘John Harden’ from Chester jumped out at me. This is the description:
“Short title: Harden v More.
Plaintiffs: [Unknown] son and heir of Thomas Harden of Wolston, brother and heir of John Harden of Chester, gentleman.
Defendants: [John More, esquire, and Anne, his wife].
Subject: Detention of deeds relating to messuages in Chester. endorsed with decree in favour of defendants. Cheshire”
Thoughts?
Could this be a relative of Thomas/Tomas perhaps? Or was the surname Harden common in those days? The Chester thing is odd, if coincidence…..
Great to hear from you on this blog, hughpriestess2017! I am very glad to hear of your continued interest in this case and the book. Your enthusiasm and historical skills are a real asset. I was very excited by your research in the National Archives, the kind of research that this case is crying out for. So thank you highpriestess2017 for your fantastic input.I was very intrigued in what your research turned up with. The name ‘Harden’ may equally be derived from a different origin to Hawarden. So we would need to establish whether the ‘John Harden’ was indeed related to Tomas. I note that on page 32 of TVP that, according to the narrative of Tomas, that he did not have any ‘kinfolk’ (his wife and unborn son having sadly died years previously). Whether Tomas meant kinfolk as in children or siblings is difficult to determine at this moment. Tomas may indeed have had relatives and so determining this matter would be the next move forward. Now Wolston is a village in Warwickshire, so it is odd how a legal case in Chester would somehow involve a plaintiff possibly from such a way outside of the city. So we could well have a different individual to that of a relative of Tomas Hawarden. Certainly what you have found is very intriguing, highpriestess2017, and I commend you on your research. It is research well-worth pursuing as it may turn up something that may well definitely link with Tomas.
Highpriestess2017, it is great to see you back on the blog and also great to see Debs from the original case posting updates here! I am thrilled to hear that the revised edition of ‘The Vertical Plane’ has already been republished and has hit the shelves. Well done to Ken and Debs. I shall be purchasing a copy soon! Perhaps with the advent of the revised edition with a new copy the case will attract a new generation of readers and, hopefully, serious researchers who are open-minded enough to want to question existing paradigms of thought, and to explore the frontiers of both consciousness and reality. This case ranks as one of the more profound cases and the clues to helping us to unravel some of the tangled skeins of science and consciousness and of time lie within this book.
Highpriestess2017, sorry to hear about the loss of your pair of cats recently. I look forward to any further historical findings that you make in the course of your research into this case. If you want to join up with me to discuss more about the case and avenues of potential research, please do so at the email address below. I am using an experimental version of the computer and chip in an experimental effort to contact 2109. I am also using ritualistic magick to assist on both a psychic level and as an instrumental aid to see if anything can be replicated, and/or to continue with the contacts. Also, the use of intuitive abilities in pursuing research on a non-conventional level. This is parallel with existing historical research avenues. I would welcome working with a similar serious researcher as you, particularly someone who has invaluable historical skills as you. My email address is ceepotter at yahoo dot co dot uk
Following up on my last post, I also found this document from 1523 – it’s held by the Cheshire archives, mentions a ‘Thomas Hawarden,’ being a farmer. Might be a bit early to be our Thomas, though? Wasn’t he at university then? I can’t remember…
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a3805f79-ac7c-4dc5-8988-8662e56008e0
Document description:
“Orders concerning duty of freemen to attend the Mayor, to give him their “frutefull counsell”; the bounds of the City; oaths taken by officials to keep the secrets of the City; special order concerning the Roodee, that Thomas Hawarden and Thomas Middleton, its farmers, shall not let it to any butchers; order concerning selling of caps.”
The ‘Roodee’ is apparently a tract of land in Chester that is today a racecourse:
https://chesterwalls.info/roodee.html
Highpriestess2017, again excellent work with your historical research. Thank you for sharing it with others. I am still trying to assess your latest find from the Cheshire archives that may possibly relate to out Tomas Hawarden. Since Tomas was at Oxford in the 1530s it is early enough for
this to conceivably relate to Tomas. Toma’s own writings that were recorded in TVP testify to his knowledge and experience of farming and living off the land, so it is well within the bounds of possibility for this to be our man. The Roodoo is interesting, highpriestess2017, as this low-lying tract of land once housed various Catholic institutions (before they were later dissolved under the Henrician Reformation some two decades later), so it is possible that Tomas was very much concerned with being involved with this land. We know from existing historical records that Tomas was later embroiled with controversies relating to the new state protestant religion and it was Tomas’s desire to keep the pope’s authority that got him into trouble with the Church. So what you have found may relate to his personal beliefs in some subtle way.
Hi CeePotter,
thanks for the info – that is very interesting indeed! Maybe somebody nearer to Chester can investigate that end further at the archives.
Hi highpriestess2017, can you contact Ken via the publisher’s email info@thedodlestonmessages.com regarding your research?
Hi Debs,
Yes, no problem. I will be in touch shortly.
Hi Deb,
I’ll email Ken as well, but (and I know it was a while ago now) I don’t suppose you remember if any of the men who investigated the case were from the Isle of Man? (We’re like vegans! You KNOW if someone is from the Isle of Man!) I’m working my way through the book, but someone mentioned Frank Davies? A man once told me a story very similar to yours, and I’ve always assumed it was yours. But he told my Mum the same story but said it happened on the Isle of Man. I’m trying to figure out if he was one of your investigators, if 2109 made similar contact elsewhere, or he just read the book and was pulling my leg! Can’t remember anything about him except he was some kind of electrical engineer or similar (we all worked in the same kettle switch factory in the 90s!) If I find anything out I might have more questions, but just figuring out where he was talking about will do for now. Thanks!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/351602963651414
Join the facebook group, freshly created for people interested in The Vertical Plane (security and privacy is a priority).
Does anyone here have a model of the original computer as used by Ken Webster? Does anyone have a BBC B Acorn microcomputer that they are using to check out the the events that were experienced by Ken and Debs and others?
For those interested and who cannot afford some of the high prices for the BBC Acorn you can experiment with BBC emulators. I managed to download one and to get it working. Getting the correct information as to use it and to download and use the Edword word processor is a minefield though. I am having trouble at the final hurdle as to how to get Edword to work on the emulator.
If anyone else is experimenting with this set-up in trying to investigate the events, or to seek communication with 2109, do comment. Or if you are interested in pursuing the same let me know.
Yes. I’ve got a BBC Model B. Edword won’t work on an emulator because the program resided on a physical chip that had to be inserted into the motherboard.
Yattix, This is interesting that you already have a model of the microcomputer. Do you have Edword too? Have you used your model to see if you can, to some extent, replicate the communications? Have you had any responses or unusual occurrences? Any advice to help guide others to experiment with the model?
Ceepotter,
I just looked on Ebay and there is a BBC Acorn computer going for £75, which is very cheap. The bidding ends in 8 hours. Link here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BBC-micro-computer-/134085097132?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
highpriestess2017, Thank you so much for your prompt and helpful reply to my comment about obtaining a model of the BBC Acorn microcomputer. This was very kind of you, highpriestess2017.
I am checking it out and will bid for the machine. Some models seem to sell for hundreds of pounds! I think replicating the original circumstances is the only scientific approach to see why and how the communications occurred, and whether you can rule out hoaxing and human interference. I am sure that there is something unique about the BBC Acorn microcomputer and the Edword word processing chip that enabled the communications to occur. This may be similar to the claims of John Tito, the time travelling claimant, who appeared on internet forums in 2000-1, and who claimed that one of his missions was to return to 1975 to procure an IBM 5100 computer in order to debug computers in 2036. Again, the unique nature of the IBM 5100 was, so it was claimed, made it important as it ran APL and BASIC languages. Hence the need to try and ensure that we keep to as many variables as we are able to.
I also think that the presence of an individual who is psychic (in this case, it was almost certainly Debbie) is necessary to foment that channel.The presence of classic poltergeist activity in the household are signs of this, as were Deb’s visions/lucid dreams involving Tomas. Plus 2109’s later contacts elsewhere occurred where there were psychics present.
I intend to replicate the occurrences, ideally with an original BBC B Acorn microcomputer. However, the proliferation of the internet since the early 1980s is something that cannot be put back into the bottle, so to speak (although the use of some form of a Faraday cage would be important to rule out electrical interference). There are no doubt other variables which we may not know about.
It would be interesting to initiate contact with 2109, though bearing in mind the warnings from Gary Rowe that it is 2109 who initiates contact, not the other way around. I have a few experimental ideas, some of which are paraphysical in nature. If 2109 is a paranormal or occult entity, then the necessary protocol should entail the use of ritualistic protection and clearance, using the Archangel Raziel through sigils, and also invoking the angelic energies of Raphael, an Archangel associated with electricity, to encourage contact. Though to some who have no prior knowledge of the occult this may be viewed as somewhat bizarre, the fact is that we do not know at this stage what 2109 is and its origins. If we can rule out hoaxing or human interference, then it may be a human time travel experiment. It could be a bizarre form of poltergeist. It could be a form of malevolent or mischievous spirit. Until we do we need to approach this experimental protocol with caution, utilising both the knowledge and tools provided to us from those who acquired the techniques hundreds of years ago to ensure a safe and effective portal to entities and spirits.
Since 2109 has made several contacts with others since the Dodleston Messages it is possible that whatever 2109 is may return to initiate contact with others in the future.
Hi,
You mention further down in this thread that you know of others who have had contact with 2109. I’m trying to find out about another possible contact on the Isle of Man. Does that ring any bells?
Thanks
Hi,
You mention further down in this thread that you know of others who have had contact with 2109. I’m trying to find out about another possible contact on the Isle of Man.
Thanks
cinziayates8655498473 Just replying to your earlier post here of 27 April as I have only just seen it. I know that you have already joined the Facebook group set up to research the case, and that you have now resolved your personal mystery, which I am very glad to see! As regards other groups who have had contact with 2109 I am still researching this aspect, but I am aware of other contacts made by 2109.
Last year there was a comment from an individual in the US who felt that he had had recent contact with 2109. Just for the record on this blog I can confirm that after discussions and running a basic investigation with the individual I can see no evidence or indication that his experiences were associated with 2109 in any way. They were fascinating spiritual experiences in their own right, possibly relating to a kundalini-type awakening, but nothing to do with 2109 in my opinion.
Ceepotter,
any luck on the bid? Yes, the prices for acorn computers are crazy these days! I wish I had bought one at the time but I was only a child in the 80s so it would have been beyond my pocket money to afford! We had one at school though, I remember. I’m guessing it would have been very expensive then for the average person to buy? The only computer I have from that time is the old Commodore 64 games console that my parents bought me and my brother for Christmas.
Btw, *so* bizarre that you mention John Titor right now. Or maybe not – maybe another example of synchronicity, as I discovered the story of him a few days ago and am just reading the book about his story. It sounds so fantastical, but I like to keep an open mind and weigh up the evidence. I imagine if someone from 2022 was able to go back in time to the middle ages and attempt to explain electricity, the internet, wi-fi, planes and cars to people with no frame of reference to understand what we were trying to explain, we would be met with a similar reaction.
I was also reading some of his forum posts and some of what he says sounds similar to what 2109 said about relativity and quantum science, etc. His references to the work done at CERN are very interesting, and I think it would be an interesting avenue of research to compare statements he mande in 2000/20001 to what has been discovered at CERN since then. I wonder if John Titor ever made contact with 2109? I’m interested in your mention of sigil magick and the Angel Raziel – I might email you about that. I have an interest in the occult as well, and have studied it for some years. I know the angel you speak of and yes he is very key to many rituals.
Re: 2109, I don’t claim to be correct, but it always felt to me that 2109 was some kind of alien intelligence. But perhaps they could also be advanced human beings from the future, capable of time travel.
Highpriestess2017, Thank you very much for responding to my recent posts. I have been away on personal business so was unable to respond earlier. You make some very astute observations and points that I wish to comment on in more detail later.
No, I was not successful with the bid for the model of the computer for sale, but I appreciate you looking out for such auction. I have not given up yet! I am also waiting for a friend who is technically competent to check out the practical use of a BBC emulator and word processing virtual chip.
Yes, I also remember the old Commodore 64, which I learned the basics of computing on at a local training facility.
Interesting synchronicity with John Titor. How very bizarre that only a few days ago you began reading about this case! Which publication are you reading on Titor? Actually, my awareness of Titor was triggered through this very blog as the author of one of the best books on Titor has contributed to this comments section! ‘Convictions of a Time Traveller’ is a very factual and comprehensive review and analysis of the communications, and includes a good overview of the Titor story up to as late as 2010 and a deconstruction and analysis of his postings. Later in the book, the author investigates the implications from Titor’s posts and attempts to rebuild Titor’s world based on his own words.
Another synchroncity refers to your comments on the CERN Super-Collider Machine in Europe.Only within the last couple of days has CERN restarted its experiments after the Covid lock downs, and the new engineering work that has been going on since. The book referred to above discusses CERN in relation to Titor also. As far as I am aware Titor did not convey any information about 2109. Whether or not he knew of 2109 is unknown. And even if he was aware it seems from the nature of time traveller claimants that there are limits to what information can be given out.
I appreciate your views on the possible nature of 2109, It certainly could be a non-human alien intelligence, or indeed future human experimenting with time. I think that we need to keep all options open and test each hypothesis through evidence and argument.
Similarly, it is good that you also share an interest in the occult and you are no doubt able to share a perspective where you can see the various multidimensional levels to reality, in particular the occult and spiritual dimensions of both the Dodleston Messages and of 2109.
For reasons that I can explain later whatever the origin and nature of 2109 I do feel that we must proceed with caution and ensure that not only there is spiritual protection available and utilised, but that any attempts to reach out to 2109 be amplified through such angelic energies as focussed within both Raziel and, interestingly, Cassiel. The latter is of interest as it occurs in a context where 2109 later made a reappearance (I will explain in more detail at some point in the near future).
Yes, do please reach out to me by email, highpriestess2017, to discuss these aspects and many more. I had some strange synchronicities within the last couple of days that I am trying to get my mind around, stuff that only people like Gary Rowe and yourself, would perhaps understand. It may be nothing but coincidences and projection, or something stranger, but it would be good to have your opinion on this, as well as your input towards mutual research into this bizarre case.
Message to both highpriestess2017 and to Nick who runs the Mercurius Politicus blog, I am in need of some documents from the sixteenth-century that need translation from their sixteenth-century Latin. No, I have no indication that they were written by Tomas Hawarden, but they may possibly be related to the search for the alleged book supposedly written by him. The archival data regarding them do reveal an anomaly regarding their context. I really need to have them translated so as to better understand the contextual anomaly itself, and then to move forward with other documents. Nick – as a historian can you advise or put me in touch with someone who may possibly be able to help? Highpriestess2017 – from your earlier posts I know that you work within historical research so I am wondering if the same could be asked of you? You can contact me by email, details already provided, or from the Facebook page, The Vertical Plane Research Group.
Also……as I’ve mentioned before, the other aspect of the story I feel that people often overlook is the fact that the two investigators supposed to be from the Society for Psychical Research, were not known to them, so what does this suggest? The implications are very interesting to consider…
Incidentally, I came across this youtube channel of a a ‘Nick Rutherford Sowerby-Johnson, who has posted several videos about the Lincoln Freemen’s Guild. There is also a profile photo in the account….
https://www.youtube.com/user/fidibelle/videos
Not sure if Gary Rowe is still reading this forum or if he can comment., but it’s been a while since he has posted – I hope all is well with him.
Highpriestess2017, thank you again for your very interesting comments. You know, I was also intrigued by this very issue! I did reach out to Dr Wiseman, who appeared on one of the earlier TV programmes on the case. I am going to do some more research into this area as you have now brought it up again. I thought that originally we had suspicions of ‘Men in Black’ type figures involved, in the case, but from what I can see it was a case of two individuals who were out of their depth and who possessed a mind set that was already closed and fixed. Their failure to ask the right questions and to drive an open investigation free from bias led them to walk away, not filing a case report, and subsequently leaving the Society. I need to follow this up in due course, thanks for bringing it up highpriestess2017.
I wanted to add some thoughts here since I see some others are attempting to establish some form of communication using a BBC Micro or an emulator.
I am only part way though the book so I don’t have the full story yet, but I feel like I have enough details to comment on this particular aspect.
I do not wish to put down any attempts to contact 2109 or others, but just to add some realistic expectations based on what I have read in the book thus far.
Firstly, simply having a BBC Micro and a copy of EDWORD will not likely be enough to receive any messages. Many thousands of these machines have existed and this is the only instance I am aware of. An emulator would divorce you even more from what – if anything – makes the BBC Micro special. This post on Reddit has some good theories on why this particular computer is significant (https://www.reddit.com/r/TheVerticalPlane/comments/sijeti/the_magic_of_time_travel_computers/) An emulator creates a virtual version of the original machine within the architecture of the modern computer, whereas this post (and I would agree) suggest that it is the hardware that was significant rather than the software running on it.
Secondly, location seems to be incredibly important in the book. Just having a BBC Micro anywhere isn’t enough. For instance, the school where Ken borrowed the machines from never saw any messages appearing. The location even seems to be specific WITHIN the house in the book as to where the best place to receive messages was.
Thirdly, there are times in the book where the BBC Micro is not even used as the means of communication(!) There is a hand written note purportedly written by Thomas which appears at at least one point as well as chalk drawings left on the floor or walls. Whatever possible significance is placed on the BBC Micro is pretty much blown out of the water by this.
I am still reading the book so I am still reserving my final opinions until I finish. However, I can’t see how any new information would impact what I have considered here. Again I don’t want to dash any hopes anyone has but if anyone is going to experiment these are the kind of things that need to be considered.
Tl;dr if the BBC Micro is important then it almost certainly must be the original machine, not an emulation. Even with the right machine it needs to be left in a very specific location. If in the right location then the machine does not even seem to be required!? Which leaves a bit of a strange contradiction.
robotpolarbearking Your comments are most welcomed and are very pertinent to the discussion.Thank you for posting here! The points that you make regarding the use of a BBC Acorn Microcomputer, or a BBC Emulator, in an effort to communicate with 2109 are sensible. I have no wild expectations of making contact with 2109 through such means, but I believe that in the interests of science that an experiment needs to be repeated (or should be). Running the model of the computer would act as a base-line at the very least. And if you don’t try and repeat the experiment then in my view you are failing to fully investigate the phenomenon. Running an emulator is considered less useful for all the points that you rightly make.But again, it is merely an attempt to reach out and to try out various variables.
I do think that in the case at Dodleston that the computer accidentally received the communications and hence triggered off all later events. There is, however, much that we still need to research on the many variables that were present.
Whilst seeking out the use of a model of the computer to run a repeat of the experiments is the intention, I personally think from my own research into the events that neither location, the individuals, or indeed the BBC Micro is prerequisite for contact by 2109. If 2109 chooses to contact you then they will, in some way.
Ceepotter, thanks for your reply.
I agree with your points and it looks to me like you are going in with the right kind of attitude. So best of luck with your experiments!
robotpolarbearking Thanks very much for your reply, much appreciated . Your earlier post was very pertinent in its detail, and actually got me thinking of the mechanics behind the communications.
I do think that you are spot-on with your observations regarding the reasons for the communications through the computer. Location and time are key variables. And you make the good observation also of the fact that in some cases that communication also occurred without the computer, along the lines of poltergeist and seance-type apport phenomenon, This suggests to me that the BBC Acorn Micro was not strictly necessary (though I do think that the particular peculiarities of the Acorn played a key role of its inception), and neither was a computer of any description. Gary Rowe was also informed by 2109 that they could communicate to him directly also.
I am awaiting on some technical expertise at present to continue the experiments (though I am completely open to results and have no expectations either!).
It would be interesting to share more ideas and experimental work if you want to. By all means, meet on the Facebook page called ‘The Vertical Plane Research Group’. Thanks again robotpolarbearking.
I jst found this 2018 interview with Gary Rowe online. Not related to the Vertical Plane, but interesting nonetheless. He discusses his interest in UFOs.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gary+rowe+AND+ufos
Whoops – sorry the URL posted before was wrong. This is the link to the Gary Rowe interview:
highpriestess2017 – thank you for sharing this information. I am glad that you commented again with the correct URL link as I could not find the actual video previous! I will watch that video that you linked to, thanks.Gary Rowe appears to be a very interesting character and I think that his role is crucial in understanding the overall case.
If you want to share research and ideas by all means you can also do so at the new Facebook page called ‘The Vertical Plane Research Group’ set up by Paul Alexander to investigate the case.
Cee Potter,
you’re welcome. I thought it was interesting, given the implication that Gary was chosen by 2109 to become involved with the case, due to his background and knowledge of UFOs. I wonder if this was 2109’s way of hinting, perhaps, that they are some kind of alien intelligence? I will check out the Facebook group.
Highpriestess2017 You make a very good point in that since Gary Rowe was already a UFO investigator in his own right, the fact that 2109 chose him specifically may indeed suggest very much that 2109 is an alien intelligence of some description.
I seem to recall that Uri Geller experienced an early UFO abduction-type experience and, later, through his work with the parapsychologist Andrija Puharich, experienced numerous UFO experiences, apport phenomenon, and communications. The UFO source, as claimed through the channelled communications, was called ‘Spectra’ and claimed to be a form of advanced computer technology. This sounds a little bit like 2109 and how 2109 communicated via the BBC computer.
Cee Potter – that’s very interesting re: Uri Geller. I didn’t know that he had an abduction experience or about Spectra. That does sound similar to 2109. And funnily enough, (or maybe not), after you posted that message, I was watching a series on UFO’s and one of the episodes talks about UFOs and human conaciousness, and one of the interviewees, someone called Michael P. Masters who is a biological anthropologist, said something brilliant that just sums up the Vertical Plane case:
“So, I think that consciousness isn’t bound by space and time, there could be some aspect of that – as it relates to this phenomenon, that there could be some COMMUNICATION ACROSS DIFFERENT POINTS IN TIME. Information exchange amongst those that are more open to it or aware of it or have those, those abilities.”
The idea that UFOs contact through human consciousness and our own minds.
This just reminds me of 2109 and ‘one’ and how they could be alien intelligences. One brought the box to Tomas, and 2109 as I have said before, I believe hinted at who they are via Gary Rowe and the UFO phenomenon.Both contacted Tomas and ken and debbie – for some kind of experiment. But experiment in what? Raising human consciousness to these possibiltites perhaps? Something interesting to ponder on…
The series is excellent and is 6 parts long, on Netflix and Amazon and is called ‘Top Secret UFO Projects Declassified.’ The episode I quoted from above is episode 6: ‘After Disclosure,’ and is I think the most interesting one.
P.S. Excuse the typos, I was typing fast!